DAE think

Odradek

The way people talk about the rise of The Ramones and the rise of Nirvana has a very whig history tinge?

Aliroz

Don't know what either of those would refer to, sorry.

Sredni Vashtar

"Whig history"?

Klinotaxis

really? that's a term i'd super expect you to know, sredni

Crystal

I don't follow, sorry.

Sredni Vashtar

Ohhhhh, I forgot what that was called.

Music history is definitely prone to that kind of thinking, yes. I'm not even sure I entirely disagree with it but as a strict model it's incredibly simplistic and inaccurate.

^ It's a school of liberal historiography which argues that history is an endless march towards enlightenment.

Crystal

I should have been clearer. I got the whig history bit, but I'm still getting familiar with music history (I took an introductory college course but it only seems reasonable to downplay that given, well, intro), so I didn't really have a good base for responding but wanted to not-ignore the thread.

Odradek

Ramones and Nirvana are generally percieved to have arrived at the right moment to sweep away decadence in the name of Real Rock and Roll

Imipolex G

They were both great bands but yeah, it's kind of a stupid (and trite) perspective.

Salix Babylonika

The Ramones were absolutely not a great band

Crystal

Aaaaah. That sounds... really dumb, yeah.

Odradek

Jane said:

The Ramones were absolutely not a great band

Fun fact: Blitzkrieg Bop was recorded after they all took nyquil to get over their colds

Or so I assume

Sredni Vashtar

The funny thing is, one of the biggest critics of that narrative I can think of is Simon Reynolds, who might be considered the paragon of a similar school of music criticism which Pitchfork has long ridden the coattails of. I might call this whole genre of musical historiography the progress-oriented branch, with Reynolds representing the equivalent to Marxist critique and the likes of Clinton Heylin being more Whiggish. I identify more with the former but both are pretty naff in their own ways.

Salix Babylonika

Odradek said:

Jane said:

The Ramones were absolutely not a great band

Fun fact: Blitzkrieg Bop was recorded after they all took nyquil to get over their colds

Or so I assume

it's not even that the songs are bad it's that they are so similar.

Like to a degree that you can't even point that out, because it feels like missing the point. But seriously have you ever heard any two Ramones songs from the same period? They're identical. There's no variation beyond the lyrics and sometimes the enunciation of the words--usually not even that much.

 

If The Ramones were like The Kingsmen and had a single song to their name it'd be more excusable but people act like the group's entire discography is untouchable which just isn't true.

To be fair they apparently did some stuff with, I think, Phil Spector, later in their career as a group, but no one seems to remember that and I don't think I've ever heard a single song from that period.

Salix Babylonika

anyway the best punk band is The Minutemen

Odradek

But Jaaaaaannnneee the Ramones reminded the world that music was fun!

Section42L

I'm getting really tired of being made to feel like an idiot for liking punk.

Odradek

Oh I like punk fine, I just don't like The Ramones

Odradek

Also this is the dorkiest thing I've ever said, but the one Ramones song I like is the theme to Pet Sematary

Section42L

I apologize for my comment in here.

I don't know why I start seeing a lot of people disagreeing with me as a fight, but I do. I'm not sure what I can do about that.

Salix Babylonika

Section42L said:

I'm getting really tired of being made to feel like an idiot for liking punk.

I didn't even know you liked The Ramones.

and I like plenty of punk music, just not The Ramones.

Section42L

Yeah yeah, I get it now.

FWIW, I only like their first couple of albums. The joke does get old after a while.

I apologize for getting overly defensive in here. I really do need to work on that.

Obā-san

"shonen knife but one of them is a republican and there are no songs about being a cat travelling in outer space" is a disappointing band concept tbh imo

Alduin

All I know about The Ramones is that I heard the third line of Blitzkrieg Bop as "The gizzard-lizard land mines"

Sredni Vashtar

I love a lot of punk rock, but the Ramones have a serious issue with sameyness. Some of their work is almost shoegaze in vibe or just completely shambolic, though, which I can appreciate.

Best punk band is the Mekons, though. Fuck you, fite me IRL.

Imipolex G

There is absolutely nothing wrong with sameyness.

If your formula works then stick with it, say I

Salix Babylonika

vaporwave is the new punk tho

Klinotaxis

oh this is the thread y'all were talking about alright cool i'm hip and with it thanks.

i like... the clash

all clashing with stuff and not buying adequate flood insurance

Calica

Klinotaxis said:

oh this is the thread y'all were talking about alright cool i'm hip and with it thanks.

i like... the clash

all clashing with stuff and not buying adequate flood insurance

dae should i stay or should i go but with brexit

MetaFour

Odradek said:

Ramones and Nirvana are generally percieved to have arrived at the right moment to sweep away decadence in the name of Real Rock and Roll

I feel like that perspective isn't too far off, if the writer could just refrain from assigning moral value to the genres and movements. Something like "A lot of people grew discontented with prevailing musical trends. The Ramones and Nirvana broke into the mainstream at the right moment to become the face of new trends, in reaction to the previous ones."

Anyway, my favorite punk band is the Rezillos, I think.

Odradek

I think people have learned to do that with the backlash against Disco

Section42L

Mine is probably the Buzzcocks.

Alduin

mine's The Clash too. 

Klinotaxis

my actual favorite punk band would be chumbawamba, assuming the count even though they sound like folk songs half the time

Tachyon

they started out not-folk punk and then they went folk punk and sometimes straight up folk

also they had that poppy phase

they were singing about anarchism the whole time so maybe it's the attitude that makes it punk

Tachyon

if i had to pick a fave i'd say the clash, bandwagon hoppers though they were

Klinotaxis

i don't like their punk sounding stuff much, except for Mouthful of Shit and it's bizarre Simpsons sample

well no i like a lot off the album whose cover i can't post i guess

Tachyon

i got into rock via prog and was kind of sceptical about punk for the longest time because i'd heard prog was one of the things it was a backlash against

Klinotaxis

i am just genre blind

punk is rock where they yell more, metal is rock where they yell more but you can't hear them over the sound anyway, funk is where you replace the guitar with a synth keyboard, jazz is where you replace the guitar with a saxophone, math rock is rock with no singing and by hipsters, and classical is stuff without drums. that's all the genres

Odradek

http://everynoise.com/engenremap.html

Odradek

Alternatively

Imipolex G

as a side note, DAE would actually be enough chords to play most punk songs

MetaFour

Klinotaxis said:

my actual favorite punk band would be chumbawamba, assuming the count even though they sound like folk songs half the time

Tachyon said:

they started out not-folk punk and then they went folk punk and sometimes straight up folk

also they had that poppy phase

they were singing about anarchism the whole time so maybe it's the attitude that makes it punk

I could see them being punk.

I think I could make a half-decent argument that Havalina Rail Co were punk, in that they took the unrestrained do-it-yourself-ery of Sandinista and extended that over their entire career. In which case they'd be my favorite.

Klinotaxis

i mean i think Pictures Of Starving Children is pretty punk, starting with the title

Tachyon

oh they were definitely punk to begin with, and still putting out records that sound more punk than anything else long after they released an album that was entirely trad folk

but i think you could argue that there's a consistent anarcho-punk mindset evident in their lyrics throughout

or you could not.  genres are fake so it's up to you

Calica

Imipolex G said:

as a side note, DAE would actually be enough chords to play most punk songs

well, you'd also need the truth, I think?

Imipolex G

no, punk is mostly lies

Tatterhood

That's right, punk is lies
It's just another cheap product for the consumer's thighs

thenamelesssamurai

Section42L said:

Mine is probably the Buzzcocks.

It's probably the Dead Kennedys, Adolescents or Early Agnostic Front for me, if we're only counting the Straightforward stuff. If we're counting the more out there stuff, probably Pere Ubu, This Heat and Painkiller. Plus I have a soft spot for The Dropkick Murphys.