Odradek decodes the secret assumption of all PC gaming grognards

Odradek

Clunky buggy gameplay=Nuanced And Complex Storytelling

lee4hmz

it's not a bug, it's an adventure

Fossilmaiden

It's a feature.

lee4hmz

that too

Imipolex G

Nuanced and Complex Storytelling is a direction games should never have gone in

glennmagusharvey

Imipolex G said:

Nuanced and Complex Storytelling is a direction games should never have gone in

Yarrun XIX

Why not both?

Imipolex G

I am not afraid of your pokemon gun.

Sredni Vashtar

Imipolex G said:

Nuanced and Complex Storytelling is a direction games should never have gone in

You liked Undertale.

Imipolex G

Every rule has precisely one (1) exception.

No exceptions.

Sredni Vashtar

I think it would overall be more appropriate to say that a lot of games just don't do nuance or complexity in storytelling very well because the storytelling is tacked onto the gameplay or is written by, well, Gamers.

Salix Babylonika

exhales the longest sigh in all of written history

Imipolex G

WR!

Yarrun XIX

There is a sort of a ludonarrative in the process of maneuvering around poor game design in service of a greater story. Emergent gameplay by accident, if you would

Dark Souls, in lieu of a strong narrative, makes the game harsh and unwieldy in order to force a narrative of surviving against ludicrous odds. Likewise, everyone who has played ME1 iis unites in their separate struggles with trying to make the Mako climb over a hill to save 5 minutes of driving

Sredni Vashtar

Jane said:

exhales the longest sigh in all of written history

I'm being a bit facetious here, and not saying it's a universal issue, but... I dunno, maybe I'm not super educated on the subject, but I'd prefer my opinion be respected as something I've come to from a lot of thinking on the matter rather than dismissed with implicit eye-rolling. I have a different opinion of games from yours. It won't kill you.

Anyway, I'm not judging anyone for liking what they like. I just feel like the fact that most games are built from their mechanics up tends to create an environment which prioritises broad aesthetics over story; I also feel that the relative lack of actual designers and developers with a background in other narrative-based creative fields creates a narrower pool of narrative resources, particularly in "AAA" gaming. Which is, I guess, a very wordy way of saying that I wish more serious writers (in the "intensely dedicated to the craft" sense) would learn how to code and get into this field. This doesn't mean there isn't a place for games which are light on narrative or super gamey in their tropes, but more games which rely on narrative rather than game logic (e.g. the Toriel fight in Undertale) would make me a very happy camper. And I know plenty are out there! But greedy as it might be, I want to be spoiled for choice rather than forced to search carefully.

Yarrun XIX said:

There is a sort of a ludonarrative in the process of maneuvering around poor game design in service of a greater story. Emergent gameplay by accident, if you would

Dark Souls, in lieu of a strong narrative, makes the game harsh and unwieldy in order to force a narrative of surviving against ludicrous odds. Likewise, everyone who has played ME1 iis unites in their separate struggles with trying to make the Mako climb over a hill to save 5 minutes of driving

Dark Souls has lore and themes out the wazoo and balances it all really well, though. It's very intentional with its relentlessness, both on a gameplay and narrative level. It's cosmic pessimism and The Myth of Sisyphus in game form, but fun and with SORD..... because Japan. It's a classic example of how a game can be very "gamey" in design and make that fact symbiotic with the narrative.

DYRE

Odra is only half-right.

Clunky buggy gameplay in a game made before 2006 = Nuanced and Complex Storytelling

Clunky buggy gameplay in a game made during or after 2006 = Bad Dumbed Down Game for Console Babies