The Appeal of Urban Living

I'm not sure it's for me, but I wonder if it's for the others here or seems like it would be.

Urban environments feel constrained and unnatural to me. But there seem to be people who love them for some reason.

Comments

  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    I'd rather live in an urban environment than out in the suburbs, at least.
  • Touch the cow. Do it now.
    suburbs > rural > urban
  • I've learned to tolerate drama...except on the boat
    well I know the suburban lifestyle is very automobile-dependent, which can be frustrating for someone who either can't drive or can't afford the expenses associated with a car
  • Touch the cow. Do it now.
    that's the only drawback
  • Sup bitches, witches, Haters, and trolls.
    i like walkable neighborhoods
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    In my experience, older suburbs are ok, in part because they're more diverse.

    But in your newly-built, "who can afford this?" suburbs, you have to deal with, for lack of a better word, suburbanites. And my experience as living in such a suburb as a biracial family was...not pleasant.
  • I've learned to tolerate drama...except on the boat
    I have no desire to live in who-can-afford-this suburbs
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”

    In my experience, older suburbs are ok, in part because they're more diverse.


    But in your newly-built, "who can afford this?" suburbs, you have to deal with, for lack of a better word, suburbanites. And my experience as living in such a suburb as a biracial family was...not pleasant.
    Thiiiiiiissssss.
  • Touch the cow. Do it now.
    ...you don't just ignore your neighbors?
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022

    ...you don't just ignore your neighbors?

    I tried. They kinda make that impossible, what with the swearing at you for getting grass clippings in "their" flowerbed (which they actually built on your side of the property line without permission) or the calling the city for any minor code violations they think they see because, again, biracial family.
  • urban > older suburbs that actually have some sense of character > rural > cookie-cutter newer suburbs

    advantages of urban living:
    * small space means less money, time, and effort spent maintaining it -- cleaning, heating/cooling, securing
    * lots more people around, so much easier to find social groups
    * generally good walkability and/or availability of public transit
    * don't need to maintain a car to get places
    * get exercise simply from daily living
    * stuff is happening all around you (something i kinda like)
    * no exterior maintenance required
    * very environmentally friendly -- shared building means less per-capita heating/cooling and transportation and such

    disadvantages of urban living:
    * high cost of living, especially rent
    * condos usually have a condo fee, so even if you own your unit, it's not simply "you own this place and you don't have any more expenses other than food and utilities"
    * more complex repairs and improvements due to small spaces
    * small spaces
    * rules on using one's space (e.g. no pets)
    * noise (if you don't like it)
    * possible air quality concerns (more dust and other particulate matter)

    advantages of older suburbs:
    * own your own whole building, and use it as you wish, no rules, just right
    * usually no community fees
    * can be cheap if it's an old neighborhood with smaller houses
    * may have neighborhood grocers and other stores and services (might even be walkable)
    * the place has character!  often related to the history of the place's development

    disadvantages of older suburbs:
    * mow your own lawn
    * somewhat limited mobility if you don't have a car
    * having a car means taking care of your car, as well as wanting to have a garage (which a number of older houses don't)
    * older buildings mean more and more frequent repairs (good if you're mechanically and electrically handy; bad otherwise)

    advantages of rural living:
    * picturesque views (if you have the right locations) at your doorstep or even out your kitchen window
    * really clean air
    * cheap building, cheap land
    * do whatever you want with your land
    * you may have mineral extraction rights

    disadvantages of rural living:
    * may have to maintain your own utilities (e.g. septic sewer system)
    * takes forever to get anywhere
    * vehicle ownership and maintenance aren't just necessities; they're sometimes literally lifelines
    * easy to feel isolated
    * mow your own (extremely big) lawn, or alternatively, harvest your own crops.  okay you don't actually have to maintain your own land all that well, but what you do would probably depend on what you want to do with it (farming, scenery, using it as staging grounds for events, etc.).  and you could even do away with your lawn and make it all rocks if you wanted to.
    * jerks want your mineral rights

    advantages of cookie-cutter newer suburbs:
    * newer buildings built according to modern building codes
    * you always know what you get (contemporary interior design style)
    * guaranteed to have supermarkets, restaurants, and some other stores nearby

    disadvantages of cookie-cutter newer suburbs:
    * no sense of individual character; everyone's houses look basically alike
    * no sense of community historical character; the community always feels like a generic modern contemporary development, possibly with very superficial "local flavor" elements (e.g. palm trees in south Florida, cacti in the southwestern US).
    * community fees (second only to condo fees)
    * community rules.  can't put up lawn signs.  can't paint your house a different color, unless you get approval.  can't even remove trees from your frontyard without being required to plant new ones.
    * bulidings sometimes cheaply built.  and you can't even improve them any way you want; any major improvements have to be approved
    * forced to mow your lawn.  forced to HAVE a lawn, too -- can't just replace it all with pebbles.
    * tons of windy roads.  you're getting nowhere without a car.  with gated communities, the windy roads thing is even worse.  there are literally chokepoints that you have to pass through just to get anywhere.  fortunately you're basically guaranteed to have a garage.  unfortunately, the car can't fly over the wall in your backyard that separates you from the major thoroughfare just beyond it.
    * environmentally unfriendly -- people not packed tightly enough to save money on heating/cooling, and transportation is mostly individualized rather than using public transit.
    * may be served by public transit, but served so poorly only the poor people who can't afford cars will use it.
  • Touch the cow. Do it now.

    ...you don't just ignore your neighbors?

    I tried. They kinda make that impossible, what with the swearing at you for getting grass clippings in "their" flowerbed (which they actually built on your side of the property line without permission) or the calling the city for any minor code violations they think they see because, again, biracial family.
    I see.

    I guess I'm lucky for having ignorable neighbors
  • if I did not live in the city I'd die
  • Tamlin said:

    if I did not live in the city I'd die

    this except I don't live in the city so I'm dying, Squirtle
  • Sup bitches, witches, Haters, and trolls.
    Calica said:

    i like walkable neighborhoods

    or at least public-transit-able
  • THIS MACHINE KILLS FASCISTS
    I have heard that the "how can anyone afford this" suburbs tend to be glaringly racist, the sorts of places Neo-Nazis and Klansmen would try recruiting at.
  • Calica said:

    i like walkable neighborhoods

  • edited 2017-02-27 04:08:59
    lee4hmz said:

    I have heard that the "how can anyone afford this" suburbs tend to be glaringly racist, the sorts of places Neo-Nazis and Klansmen would try recruiting at.

    * sheltered existences
    * lives of superficial comfort
    * no way up or down
    * children searching for a meaning in life
  • BeeBee
    edited 2017-02-27 06:40:39
    Anonus said:

    I have no desire to live in who-can-afford-this suburbs

    Unless you're talking about uptown golf course country, suburbs are usually a lot cheaper than the city.  Like, about $400 or more a month cheaper, looking at the apartment listings back home.  City rent is goddamn extortionate, and the buildings are usually appallingly kept unless they were built recently enough to be even more extortionate rent.

    I wish I could move back to Southern Oregon.  Fuck Portland.
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Those are apartment suburbs, not McMansion-with-featureless-yard suburbs. I live directly behind one of those—really it's an exurb—and those people are seriously the worst.
  • BeeBee
    edited 2017-02-27 06:41:40
    Okay yeah those are the worst.

    Still a decent suburban house usually has smaller payments than urban apartments too.
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    I used to live in a twin house in a suburb outside of Philadelphia that began as a village in the seventeenth century. It was lovely. I have nothing against old suburbs. But I have quite a bit against the ostentatious displays of the nouveau riche and their creepy reactionary attitudes.
  • edited 2017-02-27 06:50:40
    THIS MACHINE KILLS FASCISTS
    I dislike gated communities in general. There was one not far from where we lived in Palmyra, and they had one of the only pools in the area—and *of course* you had to be a member or a guest to use it. >:P We weren't really good friends with anyone inside the gates, not even people from church, so that was typically out of the question.

    Generally if we wanted to go swimming, we had to do it in Charlottesville like we did everything else.
  • THIS MACHINE KILLS FASCISTS
    When I was a kid, I didn't know or care about things like HOAs or "community standards", and was pretty infuriated when I found out what they were (and about the sorts of Napoleons that tend to serve on HOA boards).
  • edited 2017-02-27 06:58:40
    THIS MACHINE KILLS FASCISTS
    The place where I live now has standards, but it's mostly sensible stuff like keeping your grass trimmed and not having junk lying around. I've heard that HOAs will micromanage everything from house colours to the type of plants and outdoor fixtures you can have, because technically the house is still required to be a model home even though the builder no longer owns it (?????)
  • edited 2017-02-27 07:03:22
    THIS MACHINE KILLS FASCISTS
    Honestly, if someone is that hell-bent on keeping their properties model pretty, they should not offer them for sale. Rental only. At that point, it's not a home, it's a hotel suite. Homes get lived in, dammit, and they adapt to growing families and changing times.

    I have heard that a lot of gated communities were marketed to retirees wanting to feel "safe", so I bet a lot of the overbearing rules and strange emphasis on purity are there to assuage fears.
  • Bee said:

    Anonus said:

    I have no desire to live in who-can-afford-this suburbs

    Unless you're talking about uptown golf course country, suburbs are usually a lot cheaper than the city.  Like, about $400 or more a month cheaper, looking at the apartment listings back home.  City rent is goddamn extortionate, and the buildings are usually appallingly kept unless they were built recently enough to be even more extortionate rent.

    I wish I could move back to Southern Oregon.  Fuck Portland.

    Those are apartment suburbs, not McMansion-with-featureless-yard suburbs. I live directly behind one of those—really it's an exurb—and those people are seriously the worst.

    Let's also not forget that there really are lots of different variations in the kinds of suburbs.

    Here in suburban western Broward County, there are a myriad of suburbs created from erasing swampland by digging up some dirt and putting it on other dirt in order to create a patchwork of above-water land and mini-lakes that constitute waterfronts for the purpose of real estate advertisements.  These suburbs are typically gated communities (there are practically no non-gated communities in this area, with the exception of ranches), and they have single-family homes and some townhomes, usually tighly packed.  Houses range in size from about 1500 to 3000+ square feet in their interiors, and have one or two stories, and a one or two car garage, so they're nothing special from an interior standpoint (aside from not having basements), but what's really notable is that they are TIGHTLY packed.  We're talking to the point of having zero lot lines.  Your yard, which you're forced to keep orderly, is thankfully at most only about a quarter acre minus the footprint of your house as well as whatever ornamental plants you have on it.

    Aside from tightly packed single-family homes, there are townhouses and condos/apartments.  The only "mansions" there are tend to be rather unique properties in a certain part of the county that chose to attempt to keep at least some thin veneer of ruralness mainly by owning ranchlands, putting out western-style decorations, and not allowing the development of sidewalks.  But those houses are at least unique, though some newer ones are basically McMansions.

    If you look at a map of Broward County, and look only at the areas that are developed (i.e. not at the vast marshlands out west), then you see the above sorts of development for roughly the western half of the width of the developed part of the county.  This is pretty much all modified former marshland.  You get funny remnants of their former identity from names like "Pine Island Road", which is situated around what really was once an island of pine trees amongst marshland, but is now just one of many major thoroughfares in a grid of suburbanized sprawl.

    The eastern half of the county, has some older suburbs that date from the 1950s-1960s and are single-family homes, mostly single-level, on reasonably-sized lots, in a full street grid -- not the windy intestine-like systems that characterize newer developments.  Go further east and you start to get into denser areas.

    Contrast this to Connecticut.  In Connecticut, in the suburbs of Hartford, are windy roads that go up and down the many hills in the area.  (Ask a Floridian to show you a hill and you might get a small mound of dirt in the local park.  Or Mount Trashmore.)  Single family homes are roughly the same size as before, but (1) have basements, (2) tend to be of a different variety of layouts (colonials, raised ranches, and split-levels now appear, as opposed to everything being contemporaries), and (3) have far bigger lots -- half acre, 1 acre, 2 acres for a yard, quite common.  Also much more wooded.

    Also few planned communities with community fees.  Aside from some apartments/condos, they tend to be basically smaller (but still separate) houses meant for age 55+ ("active adult") residents.  But the most stunning thing about those "55+ condos" is that they're all separate buildings.  Don't bother trying to find this sort of comfortably spaced-out arrangement in southeast Florida.

    In northern Virginia, I think real estate started out basically similar to that of suburban Connecticut, but then diverged dramatically over the last few decades, as federal-government-related jobs appeared.  Home prices -- especially for the standard single-family homes I was describing earlier -- are VERY high.  Single-family homes in "normal-looking" neighborhoods have probably been here for a few decades now; new developments are for condos, rising up to five floors without elevators.  Slightly older developments are townhouses.  Lots of luxury condos, complete with gates and stuff, but stuffed in tiny patches of land.  Space is at a premium here, while wealthy arrivals are willing to pay generously for housing.  Lots of renting going on too.  And with money, of course, there are McMansions, in parts that are still rural.
  • BeeBee
    edited 2017-02-27 18:16:43
    Downtown Portland is almost all either new luxury condos or ramshackle deathtraps that cost very nearly as much.  There was supposed to be a big mixed-income housing development around Pearl to try and bandaid our homeless surge, but the oversight committee literally did nothing, and it ended up being all luxury condos of $2000+/mo. and nobody's willing to prosecute anyone for breach of contract.
  • I've learned to tolerate drama...except on the boat
    sounds like one of the pitfalls of rapid growth
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