Discussion of TV Tropes

Salix Babylonika · 2012-02-14 14:44:40

shocking revelations of the highest caliber.

Tachyon · 2012-02-14 14:44:47

@Superglobe I know you don't. But, while I won't defend the thread itself, I think it's likely that different people post there for a variety of different reasons.

@Whale That's an anime.

Alt history and time travel are more similar in real world terms, yes, but in terms of general perception, which is what matters in terms of generating fictional tropes, crossdressing and transgenderism are very closely linked.

Salix Babylonika · 2012-02-14 14:46:45

I know you don't. But, while I won't defend the thread itself, I think it's likely that different people post there for a variety of different reasons.

I'm sure they do. But I consider the activity in of itself distasteful.

I also have to contemplate how bored one has to be, but that's another matter.

Ace Rimmer · 2012-02-14 14:49:43

Alt history and time travel are more similar in real world terms, yes, but in terms of general perception, which is what matters in terms of generating fictional tropes, crossdressing and transgenderism are very closely linked.

General perception be dammed because its wrong

millercross · 2012-02-14 14:52:53

It's wrong, but in this case, as much as it pains me to say it, it's not TvT being wrong, but media itself being wrong.

Honestly, it'd be like me complaining about Colombia being seen as a drug hellhole. It's not entirely accurate (At least, not in 2012, anyway) but it's a thing and it's a thing that appears in media.

Tachyon · 2012-02-14 14:53:13

Whale, fiction is not real.

Although, looking at the index in question, it looks like it's actually a general lump index for any tropes pertaining to the subversion, avoidance or undermining of gender norms, or the blurring of the boundaries between gender roles, in which case it's misleadingly named.

Viani · 2012-02-14 14:53:51

...but colombia is a drug hellhole. I've watched CNN.

You probably do drugs too juan, which is why you like Utena so much.

Ace Rimmer · 2012-02-14 14:56:59

^^Oh okay

Guess whining about stuff works

millercross · 2012-02-14 14:58:31

my body is a temple of caffeine and alcohol. I would never let such a beautiful thing come in contact with polvo blanco

Tachyon · 2012-02-14 14:59:29

>This page was mainly created so that we could have a redirect at TG Tropes and Trans Vestite Tropes. You may groan now.

OK, Whale, I'm sorry. You're right, this is dumb.

millercross · 2012-02-14 15:00:22

space facepalm

when your normal earthling facepalm's not enough.

Salix Babylonika · 2012-02-14 15:00:25

What's the context for that statement? ._.

Justice4243 · 2012-02-14 15:00:41

"I like Looney Tunes.
I dislike Tom and Jerry.
I am indifferent to Tiny Toon Adventures.

see how easy that was?"

Those aren't people and that isn't nearly the effort we're discussing."

"Why should it be a matter of liking or not liking things? Whatever happened to the concept of indifference?"

That's a tad golden means fallacy, don't you think?

"As somebody who participates in "mockery of despicable people online for my own amusement" activity, I would like to say it's not as devoted as you think it is. I don't have my homepage set to Google Autosearch for the name of the person I dislike above all others, nor do I make slideshow videos of stupid comments, although I greatly appreciate it when others do so. I just like to relate to other people who hate the person I do."

You seem to be assuming that I'm assuming these people are putting way more effort into this than they are. I have some idea of how much time they're devoting to this, it doesn’t mean because "they're only devoting a few minutes of the day to finding new things strangers have said or done that they can make fun of" that what they're doing is somehow not bad. Now it's not AS BAD as what you described, but how long it takes to monitor a community of strangers to find something you can mock with your buddies shouldn't really be a factor into how bad the act is or isn't.

Another thing that I think people are glossing over is I making a distinction between tropers who have issues with TVTropes and members of it and people who have no connection to TVTropes other than it being a source of "lulz".

Superglobe's opinions of GB aren't nearly the same thing as the later in much the way Superglobe already mentioned. GB was a member of the same community much of us are or where, so of course we're going to be familiar with what he's done and things he's said.

His actions had a tangible effect on our community even if that effect had little to no effect on our lives. It makes sense that many of us are going to have opinions and thoughts on the matter. That at least had some impact on us even if it's a small one.

"You probably do drugs too juan, which is why you like Utena so much."

Well, one doesn't need to do drugs to enjoy Utena. Watching it can often be a similar experience to actually being on drugs...

Tachyon · 2012-02-14 15:02:40

@Superglobe It's in a hottip on the page, explaining the inaccurate title.

>There are 501 threads open in this forum. The limit is 500.

Oh fuck you.

Ace Rimmer · 2012-02-14 15:02:46

@Bobby, that was what my beef was, most of the tropes in there aren't TG tropes or transvestite tropes.

Although, I didn't know it was supposed to be a dumping ground for transvestite tropes

millercross · 2012-02-14 15:06:28

That's a tad golden means fallacy, don't you think?

And how is yours not a false dichotomy?

Tachyon · 2012-02-14 15:06:56

^^ Well, I dunno if that's what it's supposed to be, but it's what it looks to be in practice.

It's described as "tropes related to crossing or bending the line between male and female or men and women", rather than "tropes pertaining to crossdressing" or "tropes pertaining to GID", so it looks like they were going for a general "differs from established gender norms" index.

Ace Rimmer · 2012-02-14 15:09:22

"differs from established gender norms" index.

So why aren't they called Gender-queer tropes then?

Tachyon · 2012-02-14 15:12:28

Possibly because it's not a very well-known term outside certain circles.

I'd speculate that it's because it's a loaded term and one that's potentially problematic when used by cisgenders, but the page is called Trans Gender Tropes so it's evident that they don't actually care about that.

Irene · 2012-02-14 15:14:00

Sounds like something for the TRS then.

Ace Rimmer · 2012-02-14 15:14:40

How is Gender-queer a loaded term?

Also if the tropes index was renamed to that, the trans tropes would have to be moved to Gender and Sexuality Index

Tachyon · 2012-02-14 15:17:21

Well, at least within academic circles, it's controversial because "queer" was previously a pejorative for homosexuals, which there has been some attempt to reclaim by the LGBT community, but the pejorative is still in use. Furthermore, the academic usage of "queer" is rather broad and some say constitutes appropriation.

Edit: How does transgenderism not "differ from established gender norms"?

Salix Babylonika · 2012-02-14 15:17:48

How is Gender-queer a loaded term?

Some are offended by it. Either by the term itself or by its use by cisgendered people.

Ace Rimmer · 2012-02-14 15:19:24

Oh okay, its just the other term IIRC is "Gender-fuck"

Tachyon · 2012-02-14 15:20:36

I don't see us getting away with "genderfuck" in an index title, no matter how much currency it has.

Justice4243 · 2012-02-14 15:21:08

"And how is yours not a false dichotomy?”

You presume I’m suggesting one must either be “pro” or “con” this act. I never suggested that one could not be indifferent, but if you’re suggesting that being indifferent is somehow preferable, than that would be golden means fallacy.

Ace Rimmer · 2012-02-14 15:22:53

Well, Wikipedia says "Gender queer"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genderqueer

millercross · 2012-02-14 15:28:07

You presume I’m suggesting one must either be “pro” or “con” this act. I never suggested that one could not be indifferent, but if you’re suggesting that being indifferent is somehow preferable, than that would be golden means fallacy.

I'm not saying that being indifferent is preferable, but the argument so far had leaned towards "You either think this act is distatesful and the people behind it are horrible human beings" or you don't.

Tachyon · 2012-02-14 15:28:44

Yes, like I said, it's a term with widespread academic usage, as well as usage within LGBT circles. I don't think it's so offensive that we shouldn't use it, I was just pointing out a possible reason why some might not like the title.

But this is moot because it's assuming that TVT has any awareness of sensitive political issues which it clearly doesn't, for the most part.

Ace Rimmer · 2012-02-14 15:31:06

@Bobby, this is why you have a rep for being pretty cool

Justice4243 · 2012-02-14 15:36:33

I'm not saying that being indifferent is preferable, but the argument so far had leaned towards "You either think this act is distatesful and the people behind it are horrible human beings" or you don't.

Ummm, that's definitely not the point I've been trying to make and that's sort of tautological true anyways. That's sort of like saying "You either like Pizza or you don't".

And people seem to be attaching a level of hatred of this act to me that I never professed to have.

I think the act is "deplorable" and I don't think much of the people who make it a daily part of their lives to engage in this sort of "stranger stalking for the lulz" behavior.

It's not like I suggested they should be rounded up and shoved into a furnace.

Salix Babylonika · 2012-02-14 15:39:39

Furnaces are impractical for that sort of work anyway.

Justice4243 · 2012-02-14 15:40:58

^

Tachyon · 2012-02-14 15:46:48

Thanks, Whale.

I've drafted an OP, just waiting for the opportunity to post it.

^ Godwin aside, that cat clearly hates the goons in that thread. Look at that expression.

Ace Rimmer · 2012-02-14 15:47:42

Do you mind if I commented on it?

Justice4243 · 2012-02-14 15:48:03

^^That cat might very well hate everything....

...Does Godwin count if you Godwin yourself in the name of cat based comedy (Juan, you don't get to answer. I KNOW your anti-feline BIASES.)?

Tachyon · 2012-02-14 15:51:58

@Whale Sure. When it's up I'll post a link here.

@Justice42 Godwin is really just an inevitability, however it arises.

Beholder · 2012-02-14 15:57:37

(shrugs) I hate SA (and BTL) with a passion because they insult people I love. Not much else needs to be said.

Tachyon · 2012-02-14 15:58:38

All of SA and BTL?

Salix Babylonika · 2012-02-14 16:00:53

SA is a very large and diverse community.

BTL is less so.

I can understand hating all of the latter more than the former.

Ace Rimmer · 2012-02-14 16:01:11

But but I am apart of BTL

Beholder · 2012-02-14 16:01:37

The parts of them that have anything to do with the discussion of tropers. Which means not all of SA, but most of BTL, I guess

Misery · 2012-02-14 16:01:42

^^ Me too.

millercross · 2012-02-14 16:03:58

And people seem to be attaching a level of hatred of this act to me that I never professed to have.

Fair enough. It's mostly that this whole "They're idiots because they mock people in the internet" thing always smack of a degree of many things I dislike (alarmism being the biggest one)

Salix Babylonika · 2012-02-14 16:04:56

"I don't like these people" is alarmism? :|

Tachyon · 2012-02-14 16:06:02

I kinda feel like BTL have more business to be talking about tropers, given that it was set up with the intention of improving the site, whereas the SA thread was only set up in the first place to mock it.

I don't hate people I liked previously if they say nasty things about other people I like; it just makes me feel kind of sad, and depending on the circumstances, rather angry.

^ Obviously not, but in fairness, there has been a lot of alarmism in response to that thread.

millercross · 2012-02-14 16:09:12

"I don't like these people" is alarmism? :|

Maybe alarmism is the wrong word. It should be more like...intense disgust? I don't know how to put it. It's like...I remember that back when all of this started, people started to say the end of the site was coming, and started to attack the goons and crazy goggs as this utterly evil human beings and all of that made me just go...ugh. It was annoying. Especially after I started to realize that I was claiming for violence against someone who was just doing funny voices on the internet.

Justice4243 · 2012-02-14 16:12:48

Yeah, that's definitely a level of disgust that's a bit higher than what I hit regarding all this.

Tachyon · 2012-02-14 16:15:09

I think if Crazy Goggs had been in the room when I'd seen the videos about Lucky, Made of Meat and those forum threads, I would probably have punched him in the face.

And then called the police, obviously, because I sure didn't invite him in here.

Salix Babylonika · 2012-02-14 16:15:56

I saw a few people wanting to take legal action.

But the implausibility of that aside, I don't think I've ever implied I wanted to murder anyone here. I just find it annoying and rather creepy.

Discussion of TV Tropes

Comments

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories