What's an Aesop that you just can't stand?

Tnu1138 · 2012-01-12 19:10:48

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance - Thomas Jefferson. If it can happen it will. Trust me In systems where people are pretty much begging the government to take more power its even mo re likely. Furthermore ytou support Marxism? Yeah Soviet Russia, Maoist China. Marxism has worked real well. Besides in a Marxist system what's your motivation to try? Most people are motivated to succeed and improve through profit and personal gain, but if you take that away then people will just drone on like robots never making any progress because it's not going to create any gain.

Boney · 2012-01-12 19:25:46

If it can happen it will.

You do realize how faulty this idea is, right?

Tnu1138 · 2012-01-12 19:27:35

Maybe it is an irrational fear, but i'm not going to take that risk. I'm not willign to just accept the increasing power of governing bodies even if the collective majority are begging for such aggressive takover and forced monopolization. It's too risky. The point is that I don't see hope in such a world. No choices or options of any kind.

Justice4243 · 2012-01-12 19:50:46

You're not really suggesting a convincing alternative, here.

Tnu1138 · 2012-01-12 19:52:47

I've given up on trying. I suck at making my point OK. Neither of us is going to convince the other due to an inherent Confirmation Bias. You have a horribl y depressing outlook that th ere is no hope for the future and I am trying to find a speck of hope somewhere.

Justice4243 · 2012-01-12 19:54:39

Don't ad hominem me or my views.

If you want to agree to disagree, I'm more than fine with that. But attacking me while doing it is not a mature way to conclude a discussion.

Tnu1138 · 2012-01-12 19:59:22

Sorry about that. I'm in a really bad state of mind. Questioning if the world is even worth it or if we're doomed to keep going down this road towards dictatorship. The fact that so many people think the notions of individual liberty and small government are wrong is kind of frustratign you know? If Thomas jefferson were here today people would accuse him of being a radical nutjob and boo him off the platform. This does not leave me in a good state of mind at all and I'm sorry for lashign out like that. I j ust don't know what to do. I have plans for what I wnat to do after election day depending on the outcome, but it doesn't look good.

Justice4243 · 2012-01-12 20:13:12

"The fact that so many people think the notions of individual liberty and small government are wrong is kind of frustratign you know?"

You're presuming an awful lot about the posters here. Not agreeing with Ayn Rand and her philosophies is not the same as people being against individual liberty or small government, unless one is subscribing to a rather specific view of those things.

Tnu1138 · 2012-01-12 20:14:46

Please people would make the same attacks against anyone who advocates classical liberalism. Look at all the crap Ron Paul gets for example.

Justice4243 · 2012-01-12 20:18:47

You seem to be assuming because people disagree with these larger philosophies as a whole this automatically means they don't agree with individual ideas within those
philosophies.

Tnu1138 · 2012-01-12 20:20:54

Liberalism and conservatrism are contradictory notions in and off them selves. You can't have a free people and a state run economy. You can not have a free market with a social and culutral police.

Justice4243 · 2012-01-12 20:21:37

I doubt many people here are all that conservative.

Tnu1138 · 2012-01-12 20:23:19

I'm fiscally conservative and according to most people i've dealt with on the last three websites i've been to that makes me either ignorant or evil.

Justice4243 · 2012-01-12 20:25:39

I don't think anyone here has accused you of that, it's not good practice to take that negative energy and direct it against people who don't deserve it.

Tnu1138 · 2012-01-12 20:27:21

I was accused of that by so many people on IJBM and TVT for that. Right now I'm trying to reprlace depression and fear with rage and a desi re for retribution against them.

Justice4243 · 2012-01-12 20:28:51

That's not really a healthy way to deal with your stress. Especially if that rage and retribution gets directed at people who aren't responsible in the first place.

Tnu1138 · 2012-01-12 20:30:52

Like I said really bad frame of mind right now. I don't know what to do I've been accused of being wrong for my beliefs that i'm sick of it.

Justice4243 · 2012-01-12 20:34:21

No one's saying you're wrong for you're beliefs here, just that they disagree with you.

Doesn't mean they're trying to attack you as an individual.

Tnu1138 · 2012-01-12 20:37:15

The way they say it though is that my beliefs are objectivley wrong and i'm stupid for having them.

Justice4243 · 2012-01-12 20:44:09

I haven't read anything in this thread that would make me think that's going on. People here have had some issues with Ayn Rand and her views, and have even provided specifics as to what views they have problems with and why.

That doesn't mean they think you're "objectively wrong" or "stupid".

Tachyon · 2012-01-12 20:44:24

It can hurt a lot to have your beliefs attacked. When you're so very heavily invested in them, an attack on your beliefs is often indistinguishable from an attack on your very being.

Tnu1138 · 2012-01-12 20:46:18

I hate to admit it but the admin is right. They attacked my principles. Th ey presented no thing but fear as an alternative.

Tachyon · 2012-01-12 20:48:55

That must have been very upsetting.

Have you tried asking them what alternative they would prefer?

(I'm not an admin, by the way.)

Justice4243 · 2012-01-12 20:49:32

You seem to be reading a lot into other people's views, that their views are "accepting fear" which is something I'm sure most would disagree with and find quite a bit insulting. It's not very surprising that you have interactions with people who don't seem to respect your views when you seem to have no respect for theirs.

And what does Fourier being a (TVT) mod have to do with this?

Tnu1138 · 2012-01-12 20:52:14

He's an authority, essentially, a bully by their very nature. I'm honestly not sure how it's not accepting fear. I'd be scared of the type of world they want where the government has that much power.

Tachyon · 2012-01-12 20:55:33

I don't think I'm a bully. I'm sorry if you feel that I've bullied you.

Justice4243 · 2012-01-12 20:56:11

Tnu, if this is your typical discussion style it's no wonder people have insulted you or your beliefs.

If you can't even talk to people about their views without being condescending or insulting or even be able to comprehend them outside of these terms, why do you expect people to treat you any better?

Tnu1138 · 2012-01-12 21:00:34

're right I don 't know. part of it may be abit of a complex on my part. I don't intend to be condescending I'm just a very steadfast person in certain principles. I'm also rather sick of being in the minority of the issue. For the lognest time i've al ways been the minority on the losing end and being screwed by the majority. So I get d3efensive and I guesss a little hostile, and Fourier it's nothing personal it's a general thing for me I like you just fine I just don't trust you.

Ace Rimmer · 2012-01-13 07:39:27

>Implying the Soviet Union and China are Marxist.

whatthefuckamireading.org?

Tnu, do you realise that the countries with the most social mobility in the developed world are in Northern Europe and the country with the worst is the United States right?

Justice4243 · 2012-01-13 08:15:12

Apparently the UK can be worse, in some regards. It probably depends on how one measures social mobility.

Not that that necessarily affects your point that much.

Ace Rimmer · 2012-01-13 08:24:31

I counter that with Exhibit A:

http://imageshack.us/f/194/ppslide3.gif/

Justice4243 · 2012-01-13 11:32:54

As I said, it depends on what you're calculating.

Though, the numbers in that graph seem to be a little off, or perhaps change a bit when men and women are included.

What's it from anyways? Your graph doesn't mention where any of the data is coming from.

Ace Rimmer · 2012-01-13 11:38:54

It was from some economic research website and the article was on social mobility.

Heres some more data, this time comparing the United States just to Denmark.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/01/04/us/comparing-economic-mobility.html?ref=us

Edit: Its still based on males though >.>

Justice4243 · 2012-01-13 12:04:01

Denmark seems to have the most amount of social mobility, so that'll definitely be a stark comparison.

Anyhow, adding women seems to even out the UK and the US a bit. Though, with the US still up a few percentile points depending on what's being calculated.

A lot of the data is contradictory, it seems. I've seen charts that look slightly different than this:

Makes me wonder how they calculate each one.

Something else worth mentioning, education and cognitive abilities of the parents are a much bigger factor in determining the eventual income of the child than economic status in all countries. The economic situation is a very distant third.

What some have suggested (and the evidence seems to support this) is that education opportunities between the different countries is what's greatly affecting the social mobility.

Many of the more social mobile countries, for instance offer better free school programs that educate children from an earlier age.

So in the case of social mobility, if countries some reformed how accessible their education system worked, they'd likely see a great change in social mobility statistics.

Ace Rimmer · 2012-01-13 12:29:54

Anyway back on topic:

The Aesop that annoys me is "the boy who cried wolf" because its basically implying that its okay to treat something as a false alarm.

Justice4243 · 2012-01-13 12:35:11

Eh? Only in as much as if someone has made several false alarms, they are less likely to be listened to.

I can see how that can be abused, but I think the Aesop is a pretty good in the sense that it's true by human nature.

What's an Aesop that you just can't stand?

Comments

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories