I can understand being upset over the update being vague about the happenings on the meteor with Vriska present, or being vague about what happened next with the meteor crew with Jade asleep. But getting upset because Act 6 Act 6 was a doomed timeline means you either started reading Homestuck in Act 5 or 6 (and don't remember the doomed timeline Terezi caused in Act 4), or you're actually upset about something else and using this as a scapegoat.
I think the problem is more along the lines of "we spent THIS long on a fucking timeline where everyone dies only to recon it all?"
So compare it to, for example, where vriska dies on the meteor, where we get a couple of panels of how vriska fighting noir fucks everything over before we cut to Terezi killing her.
Of course, arguably, the real point of all that stuff is to show John and Roxy's development through that doomed timeline and how it will effect their actions in the new Alpha.
But then, it could be argued that the story should be structured entirely differently in the first place so we don't have to go through all that stuff.
And arguably, I'm just arguing with myself at this point, so I'm gonna shut up and go to bed. Arguably.
(For the record, I'm on the side that this hasn't been a waste of time, but I love me some devil advocating.)
Really, though, I think the biggest issue is that AH said there'd be a pause, and people are afraid of going months with no updates and no answers again. With [S] Dave: Accelerate, you saw the effects and the resolution relatively quickly; same for Vriska's attempt to fight Bec Noir. Instead, this is more like what happened after the B2 kids got the tiger; Jade and Jane both went grimdark, fucked everything up, then WHOOPS PUASD E.
Yeah. This is retconning a big chunk of the plot, but it feels less like a copout to me because the actual process of the recton is so much more involved. Terezi just looked into the future and knew what to do, and that was okay because she was just erasing a few minutes. John is rewriting years, so it would feel like a copout if it was similarly easy. But it isn't easy! He had to go to his Denizen and fully master his aspect, have conversations with Terezi and Roxy, and finally jump to a bunch of points in the timeline and make a bunch of little changes that—unknown to him—snowballed into a huge change.
I suppose YMMV whether that's "enough" to narratively justify such a huge retcon, but I think it is.
I've been following Act 6 Act 6 from the beginning, and it all makes sense to me, but I get the feeling a lot of people have forgotten a lot of the earlier parts of the act simply because they were published so long ago at this point. The Gigapause killed the momentum badly.
Then again, I'm not sure what the "ruined FOREVER" types actually want. Could we have developed John and Roxy without getting Aranea involved or killing most of the cast? Probably, but then where would the conflict come from?
it's beginning to dawn on them that everything they just read may have been a colossal waste of time
i don't think it was though, time travel has been an aspect of homestuck since day one, and i seriously doubt everything we read in act 6 act 6 is going to turn out to be insignificant
also i can totally understand still being mad at Vriska, she is still a murderer after all
I think it's bad to Vriska fans and anti-Vriska people.
Anti-Vriskas have to suffer with her bull again, and Vriska fans are chained with the knowledge that Vriska has (for the moment, at least) been robbed of the one timeline in which she definitively ends up happy.
I think it's bad to Vriska fans and anti-Vriska people.
Anti-Vriskas have to suffer with her bull again, and Vriska fans are chained with the knowledge that Vriska has (for the moment, at least) been robbed of the one timeline in which she definitively ends up happy.
i feel like this was deliberate
not saying that makes it better, just, y'know, saying
Also worth noting: Vriska incapacitated Jade and Jane by making them fall asleep. In the old timeline, Aranea incapacitated Jade and Jane by killing them. Back when "Game Over" first happened, one couldn't completely condemn Aranea for it—we didn't know for sure that knocking them unconscious would even work. But now we've just seen that it totally does work, and we can condemn her for it.
Just like Vriska said later, Aranea knew enough to be dangerous. She was very smart and could dream big, but had no practical experience, so her plans made no sense and she lost her cool when things inevitably went wrong.
I do wonder how much of an impact dead Vriska will have on the new timelline's Vriska...if the normal doomed timeline rules apply, or if they merged like Rose's dream selves did.
Oh, I'm sure there were, but with all but two characters dead and no real hope for the future, how else would you have resolved this? Again, it seems like a lot of people really hate Vriska, and in this case it's because she somehow took a spot that was obviously meant for Equius or Nepeta or another dark horse.
It makes no sense to me because I don't hate Vriska (she certainly annoyed me back in Hivebent, but I don't hate her), but I never really felt much of a connection with Nepeta beyond thingking she was cute, and Equius is, well, Equius. He's STRONG, but he's also too submissive to be a good leader.
Yeah. And that leads me to another thing I've noticed...I think people are misreading what Jane and Jade are saying there, and thinking that the entire 3 year trip was a dream.
like terezi for example, i was really hoping there was some sort of resolution to her self-esteem issues and her abusive relationship. but instead her depression arc got erased and like?? its great and all how she told her past self about being independent and all but its not the same actually as experiencing yourself and growing/learning from mistakes.
The thing is, how would John have fixed any of this easily? It sounds like they're asking for [S] GAME OVER to either not have happened, or for it to have happened differently so that people could work out their issues like the B2 kids did in the crypts just after TRICKSTER MODE.
i can understand people being mad at time travel being used to retcon prior events in the narrative. It's not a plot device i'm especially keen on, but i trust Hussie to pull it off because he's handled time travel quite expertly in the past.
For someone who really did hate Vriska (and there are plenty of reasons to hate her), this is obviously going to be an unwelcome development.
i'll note that she killed my at-the-time favourite troll. i've forgiven her for it, mostly, but it still happened.
At some point, someone posited the idea that all this might just turn out to be Hussie's version of the editing process, since in web comics the first draft is the final draft. But this could allow him to excise plotlines or details he was dissatisifed with, creating a revised version in the process.
I don't think I agree that's what's happening, but it's interesting to consider.
How do they reconcile that with his most recent news post?
It's an interesting idea... but i don't think that's what's happening. There's been a fair amount of non-linearity in the past, i think he's just taken it a step further.
i meant in general i don't like when time travel is used as an undo button. It's usually inelegant and usually feels like a cop-out.
Again, though, i trust Hussie to pull this off, because rarely have i been disappointed with any of his decisions.
For people with less faith in his abilities, or who just don't like the direction the comic has gone, well, i can understand them being upset about this. Lee made a lot of posts to the effect of boggling at how silly some fans are being, and well, i don't think it's silly.
I feel kinda conflicted in this discussion, since I understand the pain of those fans, and I agree with their concerns to some degree.
On the other hand, I find Hussie's trolling amusing, since I'm pretty sure he was fully aware of what he was doing by implying that Vriska was the ultimate hero then going on hiatus right after.
I think I'll just try to be patient and see where this goes in April.
Yeah, I think the biggest problem here is that no one really knows what will happen next or if Dead!Vriska will still be important. People wanted a Descend or a Cascade, but we got DOTA 2, and I cn see why that would be bothersome.
The problem is that when the subject of best and worst characters in Homestuck is broached, our sparing human intellects instantly assume the most ingratiating posture of surrender imaginable.
But we will do our best to understand regardless.
Regular humans have only one understanding of best and worst characters. And though we consider it a complicated subject, spanning a wide range of emotions, social conventions, and implications for enjoyment of various popular media, it is ultimately a superficial slice of what Homestuck readers consider the full body of narrative experience. Our concept of best and worst characters, in spite of its capacity to fill our art and literature and to rule our individual branded merchandise purchases like little else, is still just that. A single, binary concept. A concept usually denoted by two words.
Best and worst. For Homestuck readers, it is more complicated than that.
Comments
So compare it to, for example, where vriska dies on the meteor, where we get a couple of panels of how vriska fighting noir fucks everything over before we cut to Terezi killing her.
Of course, arguably, the real point of all that stuff is to show John and Roxy's development through that doomed timeline and how it will effect their actions in the new Alpha.
But then, it could be argued that the story should be structured entirely differently in the first place so we don't have to go through all that stuff.
And arguably, I'm just arguing with myself at this point, so I'm gonna shut up and go to bed. Arguably.
(For the record, I'm on the side that this hasn't been a waste of time, but I love me some devil advocating.)
i don't think it was though, time travel has been an aspect of homestuck since day one, and i seriously doubt everything we read in act 6 act 6 is going to turn out to be insignificant
also i can totally understand still being mad at Vriska, she is still a murderer after all
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
not saying that makes it better, just, y'know, saying
it would be a very Andrew Hussie-ish thing to do
Like in the heat of the moment, given what Jade and Jane had been doing, i didn't like her killing them but i couldn't really condemn it.
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
i thought the whole business was rather sad
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
welp
I guess the complainers on Tumblr had a point :|
TG: god fucking dammit
For someone who really did hate Vriska (and there are plenty of reasons to hate her), this is obviously going to be an unwelcome development.
i'll note that she killed my at-the-time favourite troll. i've forgiven her for it, mostly, but it still happened.
It's an interesting idea... but i don't think that's what's happening. There's been a fair amount of non-linearity in the past, i think he's just taken it a step further.
i meant in general i don't like when time travel is used as an undo button. It's usually inelegant and usually feels like a cop-out.
Again, though, i trust Hussie to pull this off, because rarely have i been disappointed with any of his decisions.
For people with less faith in his abilities, or who just don't like the direction the comic has gone, well, i can understand them being upset about this. Lee made a lot of posts to the effect of boggling at how silly some fans are being, and well, i don't think it's silly.
On the other hand, I find Hussie's trolling amusing, since I'm pretty sure he was fully aware of what he was doing by implying that Vriska was the ultimate hero then going on hiatus right after.
I think I'll just try to be patient and see where this goes in April.
if it were true we might see fewer arguments, or at least they'd be more interesting ones
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead