The Homestuck Heap of the Heapers' Hangout Forum

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  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    I think saying that his initial intent is "clear" is pretty presumptuous. And there are arguments to be made to the contrary: When discussing the issue, he mentioned that he had, at different points, envisioned Dave and Rose as white and John and Jade as Asian. But either way, the point is that they don't have to be, which is what he was trying to get across. They are, for all intents and purposes, blank slates.
  • More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
    John refers to Bro as "white," and Colonel Sassacre (John's ancestor) is strongly implied to have been a racist white man. Also the ectobiology babies were called "pink monkeys" at least once.
  • john could be interracial maybe?


    i dont really think about the kids in terms of race unless people bring it up though >_>
  • More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
    Really their race does not matter which is kind of the point of them being "blank" but I think there is evidence in canon that they are white.
  • at least with Dave and John yeah
  • edited 2013-08-22 20:53:17
    “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    ^^^^ Sassacre strikes me more as a parody of "folksy," casually offensive turn-of-the-century popular writers rather than some kind of kind of KKK type. And strictly speaking, they aren't related: Sassacre simply found Jane and Jake.

    ^^^ Me, neither.

    I do sort of see Dave as having albinism, but that's not racial exactly.
  • edited 2013-08-22 20:56:36
    More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
    If Dave and John are white then so are Rose and Jade because ectobiology (I think; it is quite complicated :p ). I don't think Sassacre is meant to be a "KKK type" so much as a typically racist white southerner of the old days.
  • Miko said:

    Really their race does not matter which is kind of the point of them being "blank" but I think there is evidence in canon that they are white.

    And those bits of evidence make it so much more difficult for Hussie's araciality argument to work.

    Unless the author goes well out of their way to be ambiguous on that point, the characters are going to have something resembling a racial identity. And Hussie did not plan that from the beginning (as far as I know); he added it to validate the fans who were getting hassled for their POC depictions of Homestuck. He may not have intended it, but that's how it turned out.

    And if he didn't go the araciality way, Tumblr probably wouldn't have blown up as strongly against the tricksters (which, from the beginning, was a stupid blow up), and Hussie wouldn't have felt impelled to make that joke.
  • edited 2013-08-22 21:01:15
    “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    ^^ Well, in the end it's semi-irrelevant given that they aren't related to anyone else on the planet, Jake and Jane's dad-bros aside.

    ^ He also noted that a lot of the stuff ended up pointing that way by accident because he just left in what he thought was funny without the intention of making indications either way.
  • More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
    He said himself that back then, he didn't have the large audience he does now and didn't think about race much, but yes, it was kind of too late to make them "ambiguous."
  • I remember that scene after Cascade where Gamzee's comforting Karkat and he's a good foot taller than him.

    Someone immediately pointed out to Hussie that he made Gamzee's tallness canon, breaking his promise to make almost nothing about the characters' physical appearance canon. I believe Hussie responded with a shop depicting Gamzee as a foot shorter than Karkat and floating in mid-air.

    I feel like that embodies my issues with that argument, really.
  • Not a hybrid rabbit-skink spirit
    This is slightly off topic, but it still rather amuses me how similar Lord English and Lord British are despite the fact that English was not based off of British
  • More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
    I still think the reference is intentional.
  • Lord British is the chap that ruled that one game, and then the game glitched and he got killed by a firebolt, right?

    I can see some similarity.
  • More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
  • Not a hybrid rabbit-skink spirit
    It might have been subconsciously referential, but Hussie's words on the matter says that it is entirely retroactively referential
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Lord English is named after the sidespin put on a cue-ball to change its angle of trajectory. Hussie only found out about Lord British and the postulate associated with the character—namely, the idea that certain invincible NPCs in an RPG may be killed by irregular means due to oversights in a game's design—well after the fact, although when he did see the similarities, he ran with it.
  • Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    Sassacre was Mark Twain.

    Mark Twain had stuff in his writing. Mark Twain was a Southern man.

    You know. Stuff.
  • edited 2013-08-23 00:37:07
    “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Well, no, not really. Twain was a pretty strident opponent of racism. He also preferred, shall we say, darker humour.
  • Well, even as an opponent of slavery stuff still snuck through since it was the late 1800s.
  • More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
    Well, that is a fair point.
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    This train of conversation is... annoying.

    Shall we actually talk about the comic instead?
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    I don't necessarily mean current developments. There are over seven thousand pages to this thing. There must be ground that our little group has not covered.
  • Well, there's always the wonders of                , but we'd have to make this thread NWS to talk about that.
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Yarrun, there is nothing in that black box and you and I both know it.

    Anyway.

    Horrorterrors. Does anyone here have theories about what their actual motivations are?
  • Well, if what is supposed to be in the black box was in the black box, we'd have to make this a NWS thread, thus there is nothing in the black box.

    That's a good question. The big theory in Act 5 was that they were getting axed by Bec Noir, but Bec hasn't really done anything of the sort. Then it was that English was axing them, but I don't think that's actually been shown in story (though it can be assumed that it occurs during the Caliborn flash).
  • And I do apologize for going on about that.

    The Caucasian incident was one of the few times that I've been upset because of stuff related to race. Not pissed, not sad, just upset. So, I'm driven to put my experience out there whenever it comes up.
  • More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
    Tentabulges? :)
  • More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
    hmm I don't know why I did that. :o Sometimes I just feel that a good blank post is needed in everyone's life. :)
  • edited 2013-08-23 01:21:21
    “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    ^^^^^ I am more curious as to what their overarching intentions are. For instance, why do they oppose the creation of new universes?

    ^^^^ I wasn't so much annoyed with you as the fact that it spawned a lengthy conversation that went nowhere.

    ^^^ Oh, that. I was more inclined to assume that trolls were more... insect-like, in that respect, or perhaps even reptilian. But I never gave it any deep thought.
  • As far as troll biology goes, the bits Hussie explicates that aren't human are pretty explicitly insectoid, with hives and that shit.
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Yeah. The whole mother grub thing is pretty similar to termites, and some of the crude terminology that Karkat uses implies somewhat insectoid anatomy.
  • Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    I always thought Horroterrors were fallen heroes from dead sessions who went irreversibly grimdark. Like what happened to Rose.

    At the heart of every tentacled monstrosity is a child who failed.
  • For once, or maybe twice, I was in my prime.
    Yeah, of all the things to go unexplained to date, the Horrorterrors are certainly the most frustrating.
  • edited 2013-08-23 02:29:38
    “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    ^^ That's actually a really interesting idea, although thinking about it now...

    I would go one step further and propose that the Horrorterrors are former god tier players that won, only to watch universes that they created be destroyed by the very game that they won to create them. This is why they oppose the game while aiding the players nonetheless: They have a very good reason to hate it, but bear no malice against those chosen to play.
  • More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
    It would make sense, considering Rose's connection to them, and her philosophy on playing the game.
  • READ MY CROSS SHIPPING-FANFICTION, DAMMIT!

    i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis

    image

    this made me wonder what happens to like

    the players who go godtier in a dead session

    because, like, they’re immortal, and with everyone else dead there is no way they CAN die, because suicide is neither heroic nor just, so they will simply continue to reincarnate forever

    until they start to go insane from lack of human contact and anomie

    and although sburb keeps them from dying, i imagine that there’s some sort of degeneration going on, maybe every time they die they come back slightly wrong in some way, their speech becomes garbled and they slowly start to look less and less human or whatever

    and eventually

    inevitably

    the only voices left for them to hear are the whispers from the furthest ring

    because with all of the time in the universe, even prospit dreamers visit Derse eventually, and as the incipisphere ages the boundaries between universes start to weaken

    and it’s so hard not to just give up and accept the invitation, shuck off one’s mortal bonds and leave the session for good, sliding into the many-tentacled embrace of the horrorterrors as your body fully degenerates into madness and lines of code, no longer yourself anymore

    just a whisper of what once was but is no longer human.


    Quick nit-pick, The horrorterros would come from many species, not just human.
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    ^ Which would also account for their varying appearances: They began as many different species, some already probably quite far from human.
  • edited 2013-08-23 02:56:34
    READ MY CROSS SHIPPING-FANFICTION, DAMMIT!

    i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
    I also don't think it's necessary to "Come back wrong". 

    Only a few characters may become God tier in a session, hell, maybe ONE. Since paradox space isn't really limited or based on time, a player can spend billions of years running out of things to keep them sane. 
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Neither do I, although it could hurry along the process quite nicely.

    In any case, I think that the theory that the Noble Order of Horrorterrors are former god tier players from successful and unsuccessful sessions is the most solid explanation for what they are and what their motivations are.
  • edited 2013-08-23 16:58:23
    READ MY CROSS SHIPPING-FANFICTION, DAMMIT!

    i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
    Having no ships involving either John or Roxy, I've decided I will also ship Breathalyzer.

    Hell, this may become my OTP since my last one was destroyed (unless it's written back in, which is potentially more likely than many other ships).
  • READ MY CROSS SHIPPING-FANFICTION, DAMMIT!

    i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
    Random Muse of Void drawing I liked:

    image
  • Re: the race thing

    I think it's important to remember two things:

    1. Race isn't something integral to Homestuck, and neither is the character's araciality. While the slip ups are certainly unfortunate, they're not hugely important and as such, I don't think it'd be wrong to interpret the characters as a particular race.

    2. This is, to my knowledge, the only visual work to do something of this nature. It's natural that there would be some slip ups, and in my opinion it's kind of unreasonable to expect it to work perfectly the first time.
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    ^^^ What was that sunken ship, Justice?

    ^ I think that I can get behind that.
  • READ MY CROSS SHIPPING-FANFICTION, DAMMIT!

    i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
    Daverezi.
  • READ MY CROSS SHIPPING-FANFICTION, DAMMIT!

    i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
    Hell, I wrote FAN-FICTION.

    Which I suppose would be have more impact if I didn't pick up writing absurd MLP fan-fiction before.

    But still...
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Dave and Terezi are a great pair... although I must say that Jade's lashing out over Davesprite was pretty poignant.
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