This term is used too liberally. I still allow westerners to bandy it about, however, as "bullet hell" is a lame translation for the art of Japanese curtain fire. People who know what they're talking about use "curtain" if not straight up "danmaku," and people who really know what they're talking about will simply use the more broad identifier of "STG" or "shooting game," to which such games ultimately belong. If someone says Mushihimesama is a Shooting Game, they know what the fuck they're talking about.
As for how bullets and hells apply to Undertale, the way that enemies attack the player is more reminiscent, to me, of classic action-adventure dodging, and how such combat is coupled with the numerical health and defensive development seen in most JRPGs and their genre offshoots. After all, if you're leveled well enough, you can take a few hits, and you can heal if you came prepared, setting the game distinctly apart from Shooting Games, in which a wrong move is often a collision and a death, and in which such moves may be avoided by learning the structure, mechanics, and strategy of the game intimately. Toward this end, Undertale does little, as is the case with most games of the genres to which it unequivocally belongs: that is, to say, the genres of action-adventure and hack-and-slash (here meaning JRPG-*esque,* but made in the Occident, from whence this coinage originates and from which the earliest JRPGs drew their immediate inspiration).
Autistic pedantry aside, Undertale is a lovely little game and a fresh deconstruction of the conventions of role-playing games.
STG is a unique name, though somewhat unintuitive depending on one's language
"shooting game", however, is a horrible name, on the level of horribleness of "action game" or "adventure game". at least "shmup" is a unique term that was coined for a game that primarily involves shooting at targets in a (geometric, though sometimes also literal) plane with (typically) no gravity or momentum effects effects and viewing said action from a perspective orthogonal to that plane. however, once we get back to simply "shooting", we have a wealth of games that offer vastly different perspectives and gameplay types -- the run-and-gun, the gallery shooter, the first-person shooter, the third-person shooter (if it can even be called its own genre), the rail shooter, ...
thus, a better name is required, and I'm inclined to stick with "shmup" for this.
as far as I understand it, "bullet hell" is used, at least by westerners, to indicate a large amount of damaging obstacles on screen and an emphasis on dodging them by learning their patterns, rather than using reflexes to dodge smaller amounts of faster and more erratic damaging obstacles.
it is true that having only one hit point is frequently a feature of so-called "bullet hell" games, though this is also true of shmups in general, but the usage of the term "bullet hell" usually has more to do with ornate and large-swath-coverage patterns than durability of one's player-unit. in this sense, the name "bullet curtain" or "curtain fire" is actually still relevant and applicable.
ignorant gaijin casual so won't comment on the terminological dispute
but Miko's second paragraph is correct, and a good analysis; Undertale seems has very little in common with the shooting genre being discussed
(that particular use of 'hack-and-slash' is unfamiliar to me, but see above)
i suppose to my mind, an action game is any which involves reflexes, and real time responses in an interface that is not primarily textual, in contrast with e.g. text adventures, traditional JRPGs and visual adventure games like Myst
and 'adventure game' is more narratological than mechanical, i think; it's a game where there is a story and a world and you are a character exploring and having an adventure in that world, as opposed to, say, racing games, or puzzle games, which are a series of modular challenges rather than a continuous experience in the same way (even when a framing narrative is present)
and 'adventure game' is more narratological than mechanical, i think; it's a game where there is a story and a world and you are a character exploring and having an adventure in that world, as opposed to, say, racing games, or puzzle games, which are a series of modular challenges rather than a continuous experience in the same way (even when a framing narrative is present)
Simple difference between King's Quest and Snakebird, or Fallout and Kentucky Route Zero compared to Euro Truck Simulator 2 and Need For Speed, yeah. Likewise for the action part: From Street Fighter and Halo to Mario.
It's a broad and sometimes nebulous label, but it is generally effective at implying the sort of stuff you're getting into; no less because they tend to, you know, come along with other descriptions which take very little time to find or see, e.g. action-platformer Sonic and Freedom Planet, puzzle-platformer FEZ (which is also rather atmospheric), or so on. It's simple stuff.
good traits: efficient fast compatible versatile resilient light-weight
bad traits: overly decorated requires lots of maintenance resource-intensive hard-to-move non-portable limited applicability large numbers of dependencies long setup/takedown/loading/etc. time
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
Comments
As for how bullets and hells apply to Undertale, the way that enemies attack the player is more reminiscent, to me, of classic action-adventure dodging, and how such combat is coupled with the numerical health and defensive development seen in most JRPGs and their genre offshoots. After all, if you're leveled well enough, you can take a few hits, and you can heal if you came prepared, setting the game distinctly apart from Shooting Games, in which a wrong move is often a collision and a death, and in which such moves may be avoided by learning the structure, mechanics, and strategy of the game intimately. Toward this end, Undertale does little, as is the case with most games of the genres to which it unequivocally belongs: that is, to say, the genres of action-adventure and hack-and-slash (here meaning JRPG-*esque,* but made in the Occident, from whence this coinage originates and from which the earliest JRPGs drew their immediate inspiration).
Autistic pedantry aside, Undertale is a lovely little game and a fresh deconstruction of the conventions of role-playing games.
i specialize in milk production and being a fetishized object, want Imipolex G w/ tat?
STG is a unique name, though somewhat unintuitive depending on one's language
"shooting game", however, is a horrible name, on the level of horribleness of "action game" or "adventure game". at least "shmup" is a unique term that was coined for a game that primarily involves shooting at targets in a (geometric, though sometimes also literal) plane with (typically) no gravity or momentum effects effects and viewing said action from a perspective orthogonal to that plane. however, once we get back to simply "shooting", we have a wealth of games that offer vastly different perspectives and gameplay types -- the run-and-gun, the gallery shooter, the first-person shooter, the third-person shooter (if it can even be called its own genre), the rail shooter, ...
thus, a better name is required, and I'm inclined to stick with "shmup" for this.
as far as I understand it, "bullet hell" is used, at least by westerners, to indicate a large amount of damaging obstacles on screen and an emphasis on dodging them by learning their patterns, rather than using reflexes to dodge smaller amounts of faster and more erratic damaging obstacles.
it is true that having only one hit point is frequently a feature of so-called "bullet hell" games, though this is also true of shmups in general, but the usage of the term "bullet hell" usually has more to do with ornate and large-swath-coverage patterns than durability of one's player-unit. in this sense, the name "bullet curtain" or "curtain fire" is actually still relevant and applicable.
what the hell is an adventure game
these generally seemed to be catch-all terms for games with more hectic gameplay, and less hectic gameplay but more visual content
but Miko's second paragraph is correct, and a good analysis; Undertale seems has very little in common with the shooting genre being discussed
(that particular use of 'hack-and-slash' is unfamiliar to me, but see above)
i suppose to my mind, an action game is any which involves reflexes, and real time responses in an interface that is not primarily textual, in contrast with e.g. text adventures, traditional JRPGs and visual adventure games like Myst
and 'adventure game' is more narratological than mechanical, i think; it's a game where there is a story and a world and you are a character exploring and having an adventure in that world, as opposed to, say, racing games, or puzzle games, which are a series of modular challenges rather than a continuous experience in the same way (even when a framing narrative is present)
let me read your post for a minute
efficient
fast
compatible
versatile
resilient
light-weight
bad traits:
overly decorated
requires lots of maintenance
resource-intensive
hard-to-move
non-portable
limited applicability
large numbers of dependencies
long setup/takedown/loading/etc. time
2. reuse
3. recycle
nothing disappears into nowhere
use ambiently available resources, such as solar energy and ambient magical residue
power multiplier: casting stat x (amount of MP spent in fight by all units thus far) / 20
the containment zone of badness on this here website
so like, we have enough badness for multiple threads
and it still spills out
i move for less bad on this website
I'm like Karkat if he were real, and I can imagine how much that can grate on people.
Kevina?
good is good