I have somehow never heard of Liquid Liquid before today.
Apparently their frontman was the kind of person who liked to go after artists who sampled/covered his work, so that kinda sucks, but w/e.
I've heard a lot of these basslines flipped before but not in their original context. It's like finding the Rosetta Stone or something.
I recall that they didn't go after Grandmaster Flash for copping "Cavern"'s bass line for his hit "White Lines", but a big part of that was the band wasn't sure whether to be pissed off or, all being huge fans of his, honoured. Also, the period, copyright, etc.
^^ & ^ I wouldn't call Boris or OOIOO "Japanoise," seeing as that term has certain connotations and, while certainly tied to that crowd via collaborators and band members, they're way more in line with the Japanese doom metal and freak-scene psychedelic traditions respectively, at least in sound and style.
That said, Japan's experimental music meta-scene in general is really exciting and innovative and totally incestuous in the way that city scenes tend to be rather than regional or national ones.
I wavered between "experimental" something and going with the term I'm slightly more familiar with. So I suppose it's the experimental and psychedelic I'm more looking at, alongside some doom metal. Although I'm curious what you mean about certain connotations, and where I could go from here given what I noted as interesting.
I have somehow never heard of Liquid Liquid before today.
Apparently their frontman was the kind of person who liked to go after artists who sampled/covered his work, so that kinda sucks, but w/e.
I've heard a lot of these basslines flipped before but not in their original context. It's like finding the Rosetta Stone or something.
I recall that they didn't go after Grandmaster Flash for copping "Cavern"'s bass line for his hit "White Lines", but a big part of that was the band wasn't sure whether to be pissed off or, all being huge fans of his, honoured. Also, the period, copyright, etc.
To my understanding, it wasn't until Gilbert O'Sullivan had his beef with Biz Markie that the legalities surrounding sampling became set in stone.
I wavered between "experimental" something and going with the term I'm slightly more familiar with. So I suppose it's the experimental and psychedelic I'm more looking at, alongside some doom metal. Although I'm curious what you mean about certain connotations, and where I could go from here given what I noted as interesting.
OOIOO are sort of an offshoot of Boredoms, who themselves began as an outgrowth or successor to the Japanoise terror squad Hanatarash. Boredoms started out doing kind of a more overtly rock version of what Hanatarash did, which is to say much flailing and shrieking and freeform bursts of insanity with titles like "God from Anal", but gradually evolved into something far more chill but even harder to classify. OOIOO can specifically be seen as springing out of Boredoms' '90s work, where they were moving from abstract Neo-Dada audio experiments to a more jam-oriented, ritualistic psych-rock sound. Where Boredoms went headlong into the more ecstatic rock side of things, OOIOO feel less rock and more... well, they straight up play gamelan instruments on their latest, and they do feel like a sort of punk psychedelic Technicolor take on non-Western classical music at points.
Now, what I think of when I think of Japanoise is more overtly anti-musical. I've already mentioned Hanatarash, whose work is part of a strain that runs parallel to and overlaps with the rather extreme Japanese hardcore scene; groups like The Gerogerigegege kind of share that ethos, what with being very focused on extravagantly grotesque live performances and demented punk aesthetics. But a lot of Japanese noise has more in common with free jazz, or tape collage, or kosmische synth music. It's very diverse and forms a kind of spectrum of weirdness, but I think the unifying factor was that it was a lot harsher and more abstract a lot earlier than most of what sprang up in the US, UK and Europe at the same time. Hijokaidan and Keiji Haino were making harsh noise as early as the mid-'70s, and Merzbow and Incapacitants weren't far behind. This stuff was gnarly to hair-raising degrees, at times more so than early Throbbing Gristle or AMM, and this was coming out of a country with what is, even now, a pretty insular music culture—which, one could say, is what allowed shit this crazy to thrive.
There is definitely a lot of overlap between Japanoise and less purely noisy forms of music and sound art. Fushitsusha, the band Keiji Haino formed in the '70s but which didn't release a record until 1989, are kind of this magic bridge, in that they're really abstract and their music sounds like arcs of lava in a volcanic pit or ball lighting as music, but it's also clearly being played by a power trio and the vocals are pretty upfront.
I appreciate the informative post. Reckon I'll be checking out some Hanatarash, '90s Boredoms, kosmische synth music (also returning to Tangerine Dream and Schulze), and Fushitsusha, then.
^^ I also really like Aube, Merzbow (the man does have amazing range), and MSBR. I have also enjoyed and heard good things about KK Null's solo stuff and Masonna's more rock-infused material, but I'm not too familiar with either of them, although I can say that Null's band Zeni Geva is heavy as fuck and totally worth your time. Also, shout-out to Government Alpha, although his stuff is pretty punishing and by no means intro material. But then, same goes for Hanatarash, depending on the release. That shit will take the paint off your walls.
In general, I just really like Japanese noise and experimental music, but some styles I like better than others.
I appreciate the informative post. Reckon I'll be checking out some Hanatarash, '90s Boredoms, kosmische synth music (also returning to Tangerine Dream and Schulze), and Fushitsusha, then.
Boris's Flood is still highly recommended if you're looking into that kind of music.
I appreciate the informative post. Reckon I'll be checking out some Hanatarash, '90s Boredoms, kosmische synth music (also returning to Tangerine Dream and Schulze), and Fushitsusha, then.
Boris's Flood is still highly recommended if you're looking into that kind of music.
^^ I also really like Aube, Merzbow (the man does have amazing range), and MSBR. I have also enjoyed and heard good things about KK Null's solo stuff and Masonna's more rock-infused material, but I'm not too familiar with either of them, although I can say that Null's band Zeni Geva is heavy as fuck and totally worth your time. Also, shout-out to Government Alpha, although his stuff is pretty punishing and by no means intro material. But then, same goes for Hanatarash, depending on the release. That shit will take the paint off your walls.
In general, I just really like Japanese noise and experimental music, but some styles I like better than others.
Oh and Merzbow! I forget what I listened to from him but I only have positive associations in mind.
In general, I guess I can say three things, two of which are directly relevant. Experimental music seems to be one of the genres with material I'm most likely to take to, even if I don't exactly love it. Dipping in about anywhere, even if where I "shouldn't" more often than not nets good results. Which leads me to the fact that, while I will listen to such suggestion, I don't uniformly follow ideas of starting with intro material (although I have if they pertain to themes and executions I'm seeking to get a better understanding of for example). I mean, one thing I do is random Wikipedia articles and listen to whatever albums or people I find (and similarly elsewhere). And, really, I've found that "I'm ready for virtually anything" is actually something that thankfully holds true for me. Even if it seems iffy, like the CC talk earlier.
This became something of a ramble I guess, but I wanted to put some of my responses in context. Still really trying to find what areas of music just resonate with me the most.
I appreciate the informative post. Reckon I'll be checking out some Hanatarash, '90s Boredoms, kosmische synth music (also returning to Tangerine Dream and Schulze), and Fushitsusha, then.
Boris's Flood is still highly recommended if you're looking into that kind of music.
^^ I also really like Aube, Merzbow (the man does have amazing range), and MSBR. I have also enjoyed and heard good things about KK Null's solo stuff and Masonna's more rock-infused material, but I'm not too familiar with either of them, although I can say that Null's band Zeni Geva is heavy as fuck and totally worth your time. Also, shout-out to Government Alpha, although his stuff is pretty punishing and by no means intro material. But then, same goes for Hanatarash, depending on the release. That shit will take the paint off your walls.
In general, I just really like Japanese noise and experimental music, but some styles I like better than others.
Oh and Merzbow! I forget what I listened to from him but I only have positive associations in mind.
In general, I guess I can say three things, two of which are directly relevant. Experimental music seems to be one of the genres with material I'm most likely to take to, even if I don't exactly love it. Dipping in about anywhere, even if where I "shouldn't" more often than not nets good results. Which leads me to the fact that, while I will listen to such suggestion, I don't uniformly follow ideas of starting with intro material (although I have if they pertain to themes and executions I'm seeking to get a better understanding of for example). I mean, one thing I do is random Wikipedia articles and listen to whatever albums or people I find (and similarly elsewhere). And, really, I've found that "I'm ready for virtually anything" is actually something that thankfully holds true for me. Even if it seems iffy, like the CC talk earlier.
This became something of a ramble I guess, but I wanted to put some of my responses in context. Still really trying to find what areas of music just resonate with me the most.
I completely understand that, and frankly operate in the same way most of the time, but I hesitate because, well, you generally want to ease people into stuff and give them some background through less extreme material before you throw them in the deep end. But I see we are of like minds, so...
Cycle is probably my favourite Merzbow, although the man's discography is outrageous and I've only scratched the surface. For my part, I like when his work goes for a real range of sonic textures and ideas across the course of a piece rather than his more repetitive or relentless material, although some of his earliest work can be a bit tame, like early Nurse with Wound but a tad too minimal. He really came into his own in 1985 or so, with albums like Batztoutai with Memorial Gadgets being truly awesome mixes of extreme analogue noise and surrealist sound collage. Some of his work from the '80s and early '90s is just a bit *too* BWAAARRRGGHHH, though, for daily listening—see the mighty Venereology, his tribute to death metal, which is great but literally one of the loudest records of all time—and a few releases are just kind of... boring, but loud.
His later work is more consistent, but I feel like his peak works of the last fifteen years are the ones that really fuse those older collage and analogue methods with his newer, mainly digital sound, Cycle being a noteworthy example that has some truly musical elements in the maelstrom as well as a truly sick build. Akita's strength is in the care he takes in layering sounds: He's as much a composer as anything else. It really shows in how the sound is arranged on that one.
I don't know if anyone but me will care about this but I was recently turned on to the work of The Midnight EE'z (I think that's pronounced "The Midnight Ease" but it's hard to say for sure), an instrumental hip-hop duo who submitted a single demo tape to All City Records back in 1995 and then promptly dropped off the face of the earth forever. It was re-released in 2011 and I downloaded it earlier today (the only official release is on vinyl and the original producers aren't getting any of that money, so I don't feel bad about pirating the thing in the slightest). The album (self-titled) is really interesting in a way that very little pre-Endtroducing.... instrumental hip-hop is, and I recommend it heavily.
(Responding to @MetaFour because combining the suggestions here is much more efficient, for me anyway.)
I'm chilling with FTL before heading off for the night, but wanted to say I've read a fair bit of both of your posts, and will respond in turn once I have the energy and the time is convenient.
TMT were right when they said that it's become tediously common to see music reviewers use comparisons to other artists or genre signifiers instead of trying to address the music on its own terms or actually put it in a broader context in a meaningful way. It's a lazy way to write, making yourself look well-informed while only expressing shallow, half-arsed judgements.
What's worse is it's often couched in the pernicious rhetoric of the "objective review," whether implicit or explicit, which is its own terrible set of illusions and baked-in fallacies. While I can tolerate a certain degree of didacticism assuming the person has a solid self-understanding with respect to what works for them and isn't simply parroting some set of ideological talking points, pawning this off as "objective" is preposterous. What's more, the kind of person who believes that reviews should be "objective" seems to tend toward these very rigid, implicitly authoritarian ideas about art and how it should be considered and enjoyed.
I kind of mentally lump these guys in with "genre warriors" like that weird guy on the TVT music forum who was obsessed with the supposed purity of metal genres, although the smug music reviewer is kind of coming from the same place heading in the opposite direction in that both seem to agree that genres, objective quality, opinion journalism as a science, and the dialectic of musical progress are all real and important things. They are all prescriptivists of the most insidious sort.
I don't know if anyone but me will care about this but I was recently turned on to the work of The Midnight EE'z (I think that's pronounced "The Midnight Ease" but it's hard to say for sure), an instrumental hip-hop duo who submitted a single demo tape to All City Records back in 1995 and then promptly dropped off the face of the earth forever. It was re-released in 2011 and I downloaded it earlier today (the only official release is on vinyl and the original producers aren't getting any of that money, so I don't feel bad about pirating the thing in the slightest). The album (self-titled) is really interesting in a way that very little pre-Endtroducing.... instrumental hip-hop is, and I recommend it heavily.
I'm not talking using music theory, I'm talking not going: "This sounds like [band] with the [instrument] style of [other band] and a hint of [subgenre], thus further proof that [invented genre jargon], and that originality is but a construct and [platitude]. Checkmate, theists."
Like, put some thought into your critiques beyond asking yourself what you can lazily compare something to with the minimum of real explanation. Talk about how the album made you feel, what things sounded like, how they used dynamics and production and whether or not you liked the vibe or what you thought was interesting about the lyrics.
Incidentally, TMT are just as guilty of pretending that genres they just made up are actually a thing, and they can be really up their own rears about justifying why they like lowbrow or trashy stuff (or very esoteric, arty stuff), but at least they don't name-drop like they just went to a MARVELLOUS PARTY and have an actual sense of humour about their own outrageous self-seriousness... mostly.
Really, the worst is pretending you're hip and in-the-now while taking yourself completely seriously and trying to pass off your shallow judgements and self-satisfied condescension as deep and meaningful and "real journalism."
I appreciate the informative post. Reckon I'll be checking out some Hanatarash, '90s Boredoms, kosmische synth music (also returning to Tangerine Dream and Schulze), and Fushitsusha, then.
If you're gonna check out Boredoms, I highly recommend Super æ and Vision Creation Newsun. I've heard Pop Tatari is good, but I haven't listened to that yet.
@Jane: If anything, Jars of Clay are a perfect example of how badly the CCM scene has fallen. Their first big-label album had lots of radio support and went platinum. But the band changed a lot over the years following—they went one direction, while the CCM paradigm went the opposite direction. So they went independent. It's pretty damning that there apparently wasn't a place in the CCM scene for Inland, one of Jars' best albums ever.
@Sredni Vashtar: You're right, that was a genuine oversight on my part. Danielson's lyrics are odd enough that I tend to listen to it just as music-music rather than worship music, but there is an element of worship there, all the same. But Soul-Junk's noise-rock albums are definitely worship, just of a sort that would scare Becky's socks off. Glen is literally just setting scripture passages to music—it doesn't get any more theologically hardcore than that.
I dont usually either but I really wanted a physical copy of that one and I wanted to ask for stuff besides like an electric toothbrush and wooden clothes hangers
That's what happens when you've grown up to have the ability to order for yourself and have your parents pay for it if it stays within a reasonable amount.
you know it's occurred to me that if I spent as much time listening to music as I did reading fucking random-ass Pitchfork reviews I'd probably be a lot more well-listened.
I can tell you a decent amount about Capn' Jazz despite having never heard a single record of theirs for instance.
i hate to reach back this far but I identify with this really, really hard
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They don't really have a discography per se, but '77 Live is the album usually recommended when getting into them.
I don't regret my choices.
i tend to listen to the same things over and over >_>