^^ i think this goes back to my earlier point about the perception of geek interests as primarily male interests. i don't mean to dispute that this is the demographic superhero comics are marketed towards, but i think it's worthwhile to consider the factors that may have caused this to become the case.
Believe it or not, at one time comics for males and females were on damn near equal ground, and this was back in the 40's and 50's. This arrangement died out for a myriad of reasons, but in my opinion a large part of it was due to the fact that it was men who wrote and illustrated these comics and that explains alot -- men as a whole never have and never will quite understand what appeals to women. Now in Japan, where they are on equal footing, comics for females are written and illustrated entirely by women (if there's male mangaka who draw shojo, I've never heard of them) and they flourish.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
The two aren't directly equivalent, though. Even if they existed in a cultural vacuum where the interests of men and women were considered on equal footing, which they don't, romance novels are still a single genre that specifically targets a heterosexual female audience, whereas geek media (comics, video games, etc.) is a substantial subculture encompassing a wide array of genres. Yes, there are parallels. Yes, romance novels are hugely successful. But the two situations are not identical.
The problem I have here is because "Geek media" is so expansive there are often aspects that are for and target women specifically. Numerous anime genres come to mind. Then you have stuff like the series "Supernatural" which is clearly aware that it has an expansive female audience and caters to it.
You also have fandoms where the ratio isn't so lopsided, Homestuck and Harry Potter come to mind.
I found this one of the major strikes against the article. The author is talking about male dominated geek culture, which is mostly true, but he focuses specifically on forms of entertainment and media where men are usually the target demographic.
So, while "Romance Novels" certainly are targeted at females, but so are the examples used in the article. It might not be a great comparison to geek culture as a whole, it's something of a comparison to the specific examples the author is using.
^ Geek subcultures and media are undeniably broad categories, which is kind of why i specified superhero comics earlier. However, within the broad category of 'geek media and subcultures' there are genres and subcultures which are overwhelmingly male dominated, and not due to any intrinsic property of said genres and subcultures.
While we're having this debate, there's another question that bothers me, specifically concerning the perception of Marxist/feminist/queer/po-co media criticism as 'armchair activism'.
i can agree that complaining about problematic aspects of the media is unlikely to result in significant social change. OTOH, these elements can be offputting and alienating to some audiences, and the web is a place where audiences often express their opinions of media. What should such audiences do? Is the proposed alternative to simply stick our fingers in our ears and pretend these problematic elements don't exist, on the basis that drawing attention to them is 'whiny'?
A romance novel (of which sex is a major element) is a tad different from a superhero comic or some such, which need not have sex in any capacity.
Like, I wouldn't get angry at porno mags for straight dudes or something for having naked women in it, for instance, because that is the whole point.
Not to mention, the sexualization of men is far different from that of women. While sexualized men still get to be the initiator, the dominant partner, the powerful one, etc., sexualized women, even when normally powerful, are usually shown as being completely submissive to their male partner.
And a strawman isn't an argument. I'll repeat myself: You seem to think that I'm suggesting that getting by in life would be perfectly easy for everyone across the board, which I did not. I stated that it is very possible.
To be fair, using the tumblr-meaning of privilege as the basis for your argument against it is a huge strawman.
And regarding the point about many geeks trying to get more female members in their rank, I've seen too many instances wherein females considering themselves geeks were ran away by male geeks pulling the "fake gamer gurl" card.
While we're having this debate, there's another question that bothers me, specifically concerning the perception of Marxist/feminist/queer/po-co media criticism as 'armchair activism'.
i can agree that complaining about problematic aspects of the media is unlikely to result in significant social change. OTOH, these elements can be offputting and alienating to some audiences, and the web is a place where audiences often express their opinions of media. What should such audiences do? Is the proposed alternative to simply stick our fingers in our ears and pretend these problematic elements don't exist, on the basis that drawing attention to them is 'whiny'?
My theory is the glut of meritless complaints that people invent, especially with all this privilege nonsense, diminishes any valid complaints that people might have. The get lost in the din, if you will.
^^ Expressing opinions is good. I think "armchair activism" refers more to bullying people over tumblr and twitter because they made a trans joke or something.
That, i can certainly understand finding objectionable. But i see a lot of hostility towards people merely for expressing a negative opinion of elements of media they found to be problematic. Take the recent blowup in the Homestuck fandom, for example.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
In the case of comics, I think Foresythe's post about comics being mostly written by men is one of the biggest issues here.
I find it hard to believe that most Comic book companies and the people who make them don't have "making money" as their #1 priority. Tapping into the female demographic for that reason is something they're no doubt interested in, but probably not all that great at figuring out.
I think part of the problem is that you're viewing privilege in a completely different way than most of the people who use it do.
Yeah.
Most people I think are using privilege as "a difference in viewpoint between people due to various socioeconomic factors", and I think that's what it is supposed to mean. The idea behind, say "Checking your privilege" is supposed to be realizing that you and the other person are viewing the same thing quite differently and is supposed to remind people to consider that other people may have different viewpoints on a situation due to their life experiences.
But yeah then tumblr SJ BALALKHKJHLKHIOHPIUBUB happens to it and it becomes "You are more fortunate than me, so your opinion is ENTIRELY INVALID LA LA FUCK YOU"
Tapping into the female demographic for that reason is something they're no doubt interested in, but probably not all that great at figuring out.
This is true, they wouldn't know what the hell they're doing. If you want an example of them trying, though, there's those ridiculous romance comics from the 40's and 50's.
That, i can certainly understand finding objectionable. But i see a lot of hostility towards people merely for expressing a negative opinion of elements of media they found to be problematic. Take the recent blowup in the Homestuck fandom, for example.
Yeah, but you got to admit a lot of the comments that are flying around because of this are just crazy. I'm sure there's plenty of interesting discussion to be had over the implications of a plot device that turns characters caucasin, but mostly what comes up on my dash is "OMG! ANDREW HUSSIE IS RACIST!" and "I'm 100% DONE with Homestuck!"
i think the argument Kex and Naney made on page 1 bears reiterating.
And again, I understand that people from all walks of life enjoy a fortunate life or suffer hardship. What I'm attacking here is the ridiculous notion that privilege is an elastic, one-size-fits-all bogeyman for everything negative in society, in this case comic books.
Corporal Forsythe said: a8 said:i think the argument Kex and Naney made on page 1 bears reiterating.
And again, I understand that people from all walks of life enjoy a fortunate life or suffer hardship. What I'm attacking here is the ridiculous notion that privilege is an elastic, one-size-fits-all bogeyman for everything negative in society, in this case comic books.
The problem is, no one in this thread is arguing that, nor takes that argument seriously.
Yeah, but you got to admit a lot of the comments that are flying around because of this are just crazy. I'm sure there's plenty of interesting discussion to be had over the implications of a plot device that turns characters caucasin, but mostly what comes up on my dash is "OMG! ANDREW HUSSIE IS RACIST!" and "I'm 100% DONE with Homestuck!"
Oh, absolutely. But reasonable criticisms got shouted down, and generalizations were thrown around, and some of the anti-sj crowd have been just as dickish as the worst of them.
i think the argument Kex and Naney made on page 1 bears reiterating.
And again, I understand that people from all walks of life enjoy a fortunate life or suffer hardship. What I'm attacking here is the ridiculous notion that privilege is an elastic, one-size-fits-all bogeyman for everything negative in society, in this case comic books.
Yeah, but you got to admit a lot of the comments that are flying around because of this are just crazy. I'm sure there's plenty of interesting discussion to be had over the implications of a plot device that turns characters caucasin, but mostly what comes up on my dash is "OMG! ANDREW HUSSIE IS RACIST!" and "I'm 100% DONE with Homestuck!"
Oh, absolutely. But reasonable criticisms got shouted down, and generalizations were thrown around, and some of the anti-sj crowd have been just as dickish as the worst of them.
Despite my hatred of sjs, I've noticed "anti-sjs" are usually just as bad. It feels like they only oppose them to be contrarian, leading to the opposite (yet just as annoying) extreme.
The problem is, no one in this thread is arguing that, nor takes that argument seriously.
The reason I opened up this thread is because several people here found merit in the argument you see in OP and second post where I do not.
Despite it's grating presentation, there is merit in it. There are aspects of "geek culture" that make many women feel uncomfortable and it's important that we at least try to recognize them.
i'm going to have to stop you there. With your flippant remark about the SJ hoard committing murder you are, inadvertantly i'm sure, perpetrating a microaggression against the victims of real life murders.
Yeah, but you got to admit a lot of the comments that are flying around because of this are just crazy. I'm sure there's plenty of interesting discussion to be had over the implications of a plot device that turns characters caucasin, but mostly what comes up on my dash is "OMG! ANDREW HUSSIE IS RACIST!" and "I'm 100% DONE with Homestuck!"
Oh, absolutely. But reasonable criticisms got shouted down, and generalizations were thrown around, and some of the anti-sj crowd have been just as dickish as the worst of them.
Despite my hatred of sjs, I've noticed "anti-sjs" are usually just as bad. It feels like they only oppose them to be contrarian, leading to the opposite (yet just as annoying) extreme.
While not denying that there are ridiculous things being said on both sides, I'v seen a decent amount of well thought out commentary and mentioning how Andrew Hussie, if anything has mostly endeavored to make race not an issue in his comic (he specifically was angry at other people who would get upset if fan artist made the characters a certain race, that's where a lot of his attempts to make the kids "aracial" stem from).
However, tunblr seems to foster a very "us vs them" mentality where we have "sides" and I the ability to control what shows up on your dash often creates it's own little echo chamber.
Honestly, it seems to me tumblr itself isn't really set up for facilitation civil discussion, so most of the insightful stuff get buried under people screaming at each other.
The problem is, no one in this thread is arguing that, nor takes that argument seriously.
The reason I opened up this thread is because several people here found merit in the argument you see in OP and second post where I do not.
Despite it's grating presentation, there is merit in it. There are aspects of "geek culture" that make many women feel uncomfortable and it's important that we at least try to recognize them.
I agree with this.
I should try get Friday in here, she has much to share on being a woman at a Magic the Gathering draft tournament. One event we went to had over 100 participants and she was the only female player (there where female staff members a females hanging out in the store, but none where playing).
At one point, one of her opponents wrote "Me | Him" on a notebook to track health and Friday had to correct him. He had never played a woman before in one of these events.
Thankfully, we've gone to other locations where about a fifth to a quarter of the participants are female.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
Some of you have probably seen this by now, but as for the Homestuck thing...Hussie himself just weighed in on the matter:
"It is a matter of grave importance that Fairy tales should be respected.... Whosoever alters them to suit his own opinions, whatever they are, is guilty, to our thinking, of an act of presumption, and appropriates to himself what does not belong to him." -- Charles Dickens
Comments
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
^ Geek subcultures and media are undeniably broad categories, which is kind of why i specified superhero comics earlier. However, within the broad category of 'geek media and subcultures' there are genres and subcultures which are overwhelmingly male dominated, and not due to any intrinsic property of said genres and subcultures.
While we're having this debate, there's another question that bothers me, specifically concerning the perception of Marxist/feminist/queer/po-co media criticism as 'armchair activism'.
i can agree that complaining about problematic aspects of the media is unlikely to result in significant social change. OTOH, these elements can be offputting and alienating to some audiences, and the web is a place where audiences often express their opinions of media. What should such audiences do? Is the proposed alternative to simply stick our fingers in our ears and pretend these problematic elements don't exist, on the basis that drawing attention to them is 'whiny'?
大學的年同性戀毛皮
aaaaa
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
大學的年同性戀毛皮
aaaaa
And again, I understand that people from all walks of life enjoy a fortunate life or suffer hardship. What I'm attacking here is the ridiculous notion that privilege is an elastic, one-size-fits-all bogeyman for everything negative in society, in this case comic books.
The problem is, no one in this thread is arguing that, nor takes that argument seriously.
Oh, absolutely. But reasonable criticisms got shouted down, and generalizations were thrown around, and some of the anti-sj crowd have been just as dickish as the worst of them.
大學的年同性戀毛皮
aaaaa
大學的年同性戀毛皮
aaaaa
the entire forum must be assimilated
大學的年同性戀毛皮
aaaaa
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
大學的年同性戀毛皮
aaaaa
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
☭
B̤̺͍̰͕̺̠̕u҉̖͙̝̮͕̲ͅm̟̼̦̠̹̙p͡s̹͖ ̻T́h̗̫͈̙̩r̮e̴̩̺̖̠̭̜ͅa̛̪̟͍̣͎͖̺d͉̦͠s͕̞͚̲͍ ̲̬̹̤Y̻̤̱o̭͠u̥͉̥̜͡ ̴̥̪D̳̲̳̤o̴͙̘͓̤̟̗͇n̰̗̞̼̳͙͖͢'҉͖t̳͓̣͍̗̰ ͉W̝̳͓̼͜a̗͉̳͖̘̮n͕ͅt͚̟͚ ̸̺T̜̖̖̺͎̱ͅo̭̪̰̼̥̜ ̼͍̟̝R̝̹̮̭ͅͅe̡̗͇a͍̘̤͉͘d̼̜ 
⚢
大學的年同性戀毛皮
aaaaa
大學的年同性戀毛皮
aaaaa
☭
B̤̺͍̰͕̺̠̕u҉̖͙̝̮͕̲ͅm̟̼̦̠̹̙p͡s̹͖ ̻T́h̗̫͈̙̩r̮e̴̩̺̖̠̭̜ͅa̛̪̟͍̣͎͖̺d͉̦͠s͕̞͚̲͍ ̲̬̹̤Y̻̤̱o̭͠u̥͉̥̜͡ ̴̥̪D̳̲̳̤o̴͙̘͓̤̟̗͇n̰̗̞̼̳͙͖͢'҉͖t̳͓̣͍̗̰ ͉W̝̳͓̼͜a̗͉̳͖̘̮n͕ͅt͚̟͚ ̸̺T̜̖̖̺͎̱ͅo̭̪̰̼̥̜ ̼͍̟̝R̝̹̮̭ͅͅe̡̗͇a͍̘̤͉͘d̼̜ 
⚢
大學的年同性戀毛皮
aaaaa