Talkin about Tumblrs, man

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  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    i can understand people wanting severe punishment for people who did really bad things, including execution, but i still can't support it.

    It seems to me like a thing that shouldn't exist in this century.
  • I think that life in prison with no chance of parole is better, as long as there really IS no chance of parole. Still removes them from society, and could count as the whole "fate worse than death" thing to some.
  • Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    I'm not sure how I feel about the death penalty.

    On one hand, killing someone means that you've eliminated their chance to learn and improve themselves, learning that can be passed down the line.

    On the other, you get reborn, so it's not an eternal elimination.

    I'll have to think about it more (I don't have all the pieces to the puzzle), so I'll just say that it feels wrong...but also right.
  • The Death Penalty is quite ridiculous as a concept, We're not killing them because they're a threat (We imprison them because they're a thread). We're not killing them because they can't be reformed (Prison structure is hella not interested in actually helping prisoners out in that sense) We're killing them because they have hit some imaginary line of "Deserved to die".

    It's completely unethical to kill this man in this sense regardless of his actual crimes. 
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022

    The Death Penalty is quite ridiculous as a concept, We're not killing them because they're a threat (We imprison them because they're a thread). We're not killing them because they can't be reformed (Prison structure is hella not interested in actually helping prisoners out in that sense) We're killing them because they have hit some imaginary line of "Deserved to die".


    It's completely unethical to kill this man in this sense regardless of his actual crimes. 
    That pretty much sums up how I feel about the matter...
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    Caveman morality.
  • Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    I feel like most of us have that line of; "no longer deserves to live" that we'll find sometime. If we're lucky, that line is really, really hard to find.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    That seems a scary thing to posit, and i'm not sure there's any grounds for it.  Perhaps some people just don't have such a line.
  • kill living beings
    i dunno. on the face of it you might be okay with killing some exaggerated evil - which is going to be Hitler, because of course it's Hitler. but if you look at the Nuremberg trials the ones who were convicted but not executed were generally released for health or other reasons. Neurath got 15 years, Speer got twenty. Given the wholesale restructuring of the German government and German society by the victors after the war, it's easy to conclude that execution, confinement, or reformation would all be basically irrelevant, because what ensured that Nazism couldn't happen again wasn't Hitler being dead, it was the reconstruction. And Speer's not exactly going to go spree killing, in all likelihood.

    this is kind of incoherent. eh.
  • MachSpeed said:

    I feel like most of us have that line of; "no longer deserves to live" that we'll find sometime. If we're lucky, that line is really, really hard to find.

    nah
  • Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    I just mean that there's probably a deeply vindictive button in all of us, and that button might get pressed if it really hurts something or someone we care about.

    And if it turns on, it doesn't mean it can't be turned off or ignored.
  • MachSpeed said:

    I just mean that there's probably a deeply vindictive button in all of us, and that button might get pressed if it really hurts something or someone we care about.


    And if it turns on, it doesn't mean it can't be turned off or ignored.
    I think you are unwisely extrapolating yourself to all of humanity.

    i dunno. on the face of it you might be okay with killing some exaggerated evil - which is going to be Hitler, because of course it's Hitler. but if you look at the Nuremberg trials the ones who were convicted but not executed were generally released for health or other reasons. Neurath got 15 years, Speer got twenty. Given the wholesale restructuring of the German government and German society by the victors after the war, it's easy to conclude that execution, confinement, or reformation would all be basically irrelevant, because what ensured that Nazism couldn't happen again wasn't Hitler being dead, it was the reconstruction. And Speer's not exactly going to go spree killing, in all likelihood.

    this is kind of incoherent. eh.

    yes it is.
  • Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    Possibly, I do that a lot.
  • edited 2015-09-05 04:35:02
    I had a conversation with my friend about just this topic a while ago. 

    He used statements like "deserve to die" and "unsalvageable", and said that he primarily supported it to "give peace" to the people the condemned hurt. Statements like these reveal the true nature of death penalty apologists, I'm sorry to say.

    My friend is not zealous or an asshole. Many people who support the death penalty are neither: they are good, honest people simply being driven by outrage. And that's understandable, but it's no way to run a state. Irrational hatred is simply that - irrational, and no basis for laws or policies.

    I personally agree with the statements here. The death penalty is morally aberrant. But you know what? It doesn't matter what I believe. It doesn't matter what any of us believe. Because at the end of the day, the only question that matters is this: does it work?

    And research has shown, time and again, that the answer is no

    tl;dr I oppose the death penalty on purely pragmatic grounds
  • Sup bitches, witches, Haters, and trolls.
    at this point you actually see a lot of families of the victims saying "no, prosecutors, don't go for the death penalty, because the appeals will take a long time and we don't want to see that fucker on TV anymore"

    and i don't think taking away the appeals process for these cases is worth it because your James Holmes and your Dzhokar Tsarnaev are a relatively minor problem as far as what the legal system deals with.
  • Calica said:

    at this point you actually see a lot of families of the victims saying "no, prosecutors, don't go for the death penalty, because the appeals will take a long time and we don't want to see that fucker on TV anymore"




    Wow, thanks. More evidence against the death penalty.

    Could you source those claims? Being sincere here: I might need it in case my friend does it again.
  • edited 2015-09-05 11:54:25
    Vriska said:

    I'd thought "fictionkin" was identifying as a fictional character and "fictive" was having one as a "headmate".


    I may be completely wrong since I tend not to get into those circles on Tumblr due to not being a 'kin or a multiple system or whatever though.



    I actually can't help but respect fictionkin to an extent? I mean, they clearly identify with a character to the point that they wanna pretend to be them, and isn't finding a character you identify with something to be celebrated?

    I'm not sure if respect is the right word.
  • Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    I can literally identify with any character ever, if I want to. Identifying with some characters is why I hate those characters, in fact.

    It's not like it's hard.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    i guess if you asked me 'does Hitler deserve to live' i'd say 'well no', but that's not my sole reason for being opposed to the death penalty, i don't actually think the state should have the authority to carry out executions full stop
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    there's a certain perspective, endorsed by some major religious groups, that says nobody deserves to live, of course
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    See I feel like there's a fundamental difference between "does Ted Bundy deserve to live" and "does the government have the right to end Ted Bundy's life"
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    MachSpeed said:

    I can literally identify with any character ever, if I want to. Identifying with some characters is why I hate those characters, in fact.


    It's not like it's hard.
    i find connecting to most characters quite difficult tbh

    it's rare that i find a character and think, this is me
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    and by rare i mean it never happens really, some have been close
  • See I feel like there's a fundamental difference between "does Ted Bundy deserve to live" and "does the government have the right to end Ted Bundy's life"

    i do also
  • There's also a difference between identifying -with- a character and identifying -as- a character. Like "I have a lot in common with Luna Lovegood and can identify with what she goes through" is probably healthier than "I am literally Luna Lovegood, call me Luna, and other people saying they're Luna Lovegood offends me".
  • edited 2015-09-05 15:02:06
    ^ Hence why I said that respect isn't the right word: I don't endorse what these people do.

    Also, these people seem perfectly healthy to me. Just a little attention-starved.
  • Onto more serious fare:

    I personally don't believe that we have any right to determine who gets to live and who gets to die, and killing people should only be done on grounds of necessity.
  • Sup bitches, witches, Haters, and trolls.
    Acererak said:

    Calica said:

    at this point you actually see a lot of families of the victims saying "no, prosecutors, don't go for the death penalty, because the appeals will take a long time and we don't want to see that fucker on TV anymore"




    Wow, thanks. More evidence against the death penalty.

    Could you source those claims? Being sincere here: I might need it in case my friend does it again.
    here
  • kill living beings
    i might as well link a good dissent on the death penalty, from Callins v Collins

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/93-7054.ZA1.html
  • Where would I be without you guys?
  • Vriska said:

    There's also a difference between identifying -with- a character and identifying -as- a character. Like "I have a lot in common with Luna Lovegood and can identify with what she goes through" is probably healthier than "I am literally Luna Lovegood, call me Luna, and other people saying they're Luna Lovegood offends me".

    In my experience fictionkin are generally pretty vague about where they fall on a scale of "am this character" to "like this character," though seeing people refer to a character's actions in the first person isn't unheard of. Makes the entire thing seem kinda granfalloony.
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    One thing I've never quite understood is "I identify as [fictional character], don't follow me if you also identify as [same fictional character]."

    Like, I just don't get it.
  • One thing I've never quite understood is "I identify as [fictional character], don't follow me if you also identify as [same fictional character]."


    Like, I just don't get it.
    there can be only one
  • That community has a shitton of internal rules and such. It all comes off as an attempt to mirror SJ discourse.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    that is actually the kind of thing that makes me find *kin stuff a bit hard to take tbh

    like i'm fine with RPing, and if people want to pretend it's not RPing that's also fine, but that just seems kinda bratty to me?

    maybe they have their reasons and i'm just being the fun police, idk
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    I dunno about you guys but if I didn't tell myself "I am literally a magical princess and I'm merely trapped in the body of a human transgender college student in this dimension because the multiverse is cruel and random" I wouldn't be able to cope with reality at all

    I guess this is off-topic
  • No the notion of otherkin as a coping method is well accepted within the community

    I saw a godkin bipolar person argue that being godkin was a manifestation of their delusions of grandeur when manic and therefore any skepticism towards being godkin were ableist

    The thing is even if these thought processes aren't usually harmful that they have a potential to do stuff like that is a problem
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    i don't know what to say to that, tbh.

    i don't want to hurt anyone.
  • That's why I don't ever take up my issues with these methods of thinking with the people themselves. Because it's super entangled with identity politics and mental illness and stuff. But it's frustrating because it really only ever seems to make it harder to actually understand identity politics and mental illness and stuff like that, at least when it comes to, like, self actualizing.
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    I mean, I used to worry I was being outright delusional, but I talked to my therapist about it and he said using fantasies as a coping method was fine as long as I don't try to act out my fantasies in real life.

    So...I dunno. Am I crazy?
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    Using fantasies as a coping method doesn't sound like crazy to me.
  • Of course it's not a problem, they just have to be clearly thought of as fantasies, not something inextricably bound to your identity.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    Also tbh i still tell myself i am a consciousness that exists independent of this flesh creature i call me and that maybe one day i will be free from it.

    i don't really believe this but i kinda do.

    So idk, who am i to judge anyone?  i don't even know what i really think.
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    I mean, I'm not sure I actually believe that I'm literally a magical princess in an alternate reality.

    But I have to tell myself that because otherwise I would just be left with the sad truth that this reality has screwed me over in a number of ways.

    Am I making sense?
  • edited 2015-09-05 20:34:02
    Yeah, but there's a clear delineation and understanding there. That's fine and healthy.

    I don't doubt the legitimacy of some people's attachments to fictional characters, animals, or mythological beings. I just think that these attachments are superficial and are often formed because they're indulgent or allow for abnegation without the *understanding* that that's what they do. Abnegation isn't a problem inherently, but it has to be understood.
  • I tell myself that one day I will be 1/10th as cool as Madlib
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    i'm not sure it is abnegation?  A self is a complicated thing.

    You're making sense, CA.

    But i guess . . . idk.  i mean given the chance, quite honestly, if someone offered me the choice to be a magical princess, i would jump at the opportunity!  Who wouldn't love to have magic powers?  But i'm not one.  i don't see that as a way that i've been screwed over, because nobody else is one, either.  Does that make sense?

    Obviously i'm me and you're you, what feels right for you doesn't necessarily feel right to me.
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    Tachyon said:

    i'm not sure it is abnegation?  A self is a complicated thing.


    You're making sense, CA.

    But i guess . . . idk.  i mean given the chance, quite honestly, if someone offered me the choice to be a magical princess, i would jump at the opportunity!  Who wouldn't love to have magic powers?  But i'm not one.  i don't see that as a way that i've been screwed over, because nobody else is one, either.  Does that make sense?

    Obviously i'm me and you're you, what feels right for you doesn't necessarily feel right to me.
    Maybe I didn't express myself well...

    It's not that I feel screwed over by not being a magical princess, that'd just be silly.

    It's that I feel screwed over even by the standards of our reality, i.e., I'm poor, I'm transgender, I have a family history of heart disease, etc.

    Does that seem more sensible?
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    It seems perfectly sensible (though like i said, what you said before made sense)
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