I think Macklemore and John Green have a lot in common, in that they're both giant saps who wear their sentimentality on their sleeves. They both got massively popular in large part because of their sentimentality, which obviously attracts anti-fans who want to try to prove that they don't actually mean what they're saying.
As much as I understand that impulse to tear down celebrities who present themselves as "nice guys", there has yet to be any proof that they're being insincere with the emotions they exhibit in their artwork. Until proof arises, I'm not going to join in the witch hunt against them.
And the thing is, successful creators are quite likely to be a little full of themselves -- because it gives them an inner strength to carry on when things don't work out right, when hopes are dashed. Getting your footing as a creative artist is a hard task with many setbacks; arrogant people tend to succeed because their self-belief keeps them going.
And the thing is, successful creators are quite likely to be a little full of themselves -- because it gives them an inner strength to carry on when things don't work out right, when hopes are dashed. Getting your footing as a creative artist is a hard task with many setbacks; arrogant people tend to succeed because their self-belief keeps them going.
Not truly arrogant people, though. People who assume that criticism is jealousy or slight and call their faults their style to avoid having to change for the better tend not to go much of anywhere. In my time among amateur writers, I have met several flavours of this.
I think Macklemore and John Green have a lot in common, in that they're both giant saps who wear their sentimentality on their sleeves. They both got massively popular in large part because of their sentimentality, which obviously attracts anti-fans who want to try to prove that they don't actually mean what they're saying.
As much as I understand that impulse to tear down celebrities who present themselves as "nice guys", there has yet to be any proof that they're being insincere with the emotions they exhibit in their artwork. Until proof arises, I'm not going to join in the witch hunt against them.
And I've found myself liking both of them because, well, I'm a huge sap...which probably explains why I tend to keep my opinions to myself on places like tumblr or Twitter most of the time. :/
I think Macklemore and John Green have a lot in common, in that they're both giant saps who wear their sentimentality on their sleeves. They both got massively popular in large part because of their sentimentality, which obviously attracts anti-fans who want to try to prove that they don't actually mean what they're saying.
As much as I understand that impulse to tear down celebrities who present themselves as "nice guys", there has yet to be any proof that they're being insincere with the emotions they exhibit in their artwork. Until proof arises, I'm not going to join in the witch hunt against them.
And I've found myself liking both of them because, well, I'm a huge sap...which probably explains why I tend to keep my opinions to myself on places like tumblr or Twitter most of the time. :/
While I am a huge sap myself and therefore can appreciate where they are coming from, I prefer to be subtler and more sophisticated about how I feel about the world than, say, Macklemore. Sincerity does not mean corniness.
...I think that's part of why I like the chorus to Chvrches' "We Sink", come to think of it. It's either a very sweet, sad sentiment said in a very unsentimental way.
I think Macklemore and John Green have a lot in common, in that they're both giant saps who wear their sentimentality on their sleeves. They both got massively popular in large part because of their sentimentality, which obviously attracts anti-fans who want to try to prove that they don't actually mean what they're saying.
As much as I understand that impulse to tear down celebrities who present themselves as "nice guys", there has yet to be any proof that they're being insincere with the emotions they exhibit in their artwork. Until proof arises, I'm not going to join in the witch hunt against them.
what dear said
also a lot of the accusations I've seen against both of them come from people who blatantly show that they did not actually read/listened to their work, not even just digging a little deeper to get a fuller context
You know, this whole John Green debacle has got me thinking.
The idea that celebrities need to apologize for and address EVERYTHING wrong they've said is ridiculous. It holds people to far, far too high of a standard than is feasible.
And the annoying thing is, John Green still does it. And people still fucking complain.
So my takeaway here is that it isn't about apologies. It never was. It's about feeling superior because you don't like someone that a lot of people like. Which I pretty much knew already, but this pretty much cements it.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
You know, this whole John Green debacle has got me thinking.
The idea that celebrities need to apologize for and address EVERYTHING wrong they've said is ridiculous. It holds people to far, far too high of a standard than is feasible.
And the annoying thing is, John Green still does it. And people still fucking complain.
So my takeaway here is that it isn't about apologies. It never was. It's about feeling superior because you don't like someone that a lot of people like. Which I pretty much knew already, but this pretty much cements it.
Getting genuinely angry at John Green for making a silly self-praising post is stupid
But I feel like you're kinda going to the opposite extreme
You know, this whole John Green debacle has got me thinking.
The idea that celebrities need to apologize for and address EVERYTHING wrong they've said is ridiculous. It holds people to far, far too high of a standard than is feasible.
And the annoying thing is, John Green still does it. And people still fucking complain.
So my takeaway here is that it isn't about apologies. It never was. It's about feeling superior because you don't like someone that a lot of people like. Which I pretty much knew already, but this pretty much cements it.
Getting genuinely angry at John Green for making a silly self-praising post is stupid
But I feel like you're kinda going to the opposite extreme
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
Nah, this is something that regularly bothers me because it seems to happen so often with different people. This instance happens to be particularly dumb.
Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
My position on the post is mostly "haha look at person on internet say giddy stupid thing", because if I said giddy stupid things, I'd want people to show all their friends too.
It's the people who defend it that bother me. Green's statement reads as "Look the girl initiates in this movie, it has not been done." And he probably was so giddy with excitement that he didn't think about what he said, but it's still a giddy stupid thing he said, and it makes me smile. We have had this thing for a while (granted, movies don't do it nearly enough), so the statement is wrong, which also makes me smile.
Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
Morven: Specifically related to this topic, or in general?
Because in general I think that philosophies that promote extreme or absolute ideas are dangerous.
In general, related to this topic, I think that the glorification of nerd culture, the idea that certain people possessing of certain statuses will have certain (sometimes desirable traits), the idea that age is a terrible thing, the exaltation of being young, these are things that I feel are bad that I have seen John Green promote.
OK, with that and the last post, I think I really like this guy. His writing might not be my thing, but I like him.
I think I agree with you on both counts.
I admit that his anti-fans have gotten me curious about reading his stuff more in-depth, however, so that I can flesh out my own opinions on it. Similarly, the Macklemore anti-fans got me to actually listen to The Heist, when I otherwise wouldn't have been particularly interested in it.
Morven: Specifically related to this topic, or in general?
Because in general I think that philosophies that promote extreme or absolute ideas are dangerous.
In general, related to this topic, I think that the glorification of nerd culture, the idea that certain people possessing of certain statuses will have certain (sometimes desirable traits), the idea that age is a terrible thing, the exaltation of being young, these are things that I feel are bad that I have seen John Green promote.
I don't think that's his intent in the slightest. I mean, saying, "Being young is a great part of your life and you should appreciate it while you're there," does not automatically mean, "Every other part of your life will be horrible and drab and why bother living it?" Likewise, telling insecure nerdy kids to be proud of their enthusiasm for subjects that not everyone is into is not the same as the promotion of the cliquish insularity and obsessiveness of fandom.
Not everything is black and white like that. You can be happily nerdy and still think that certain aspects of nerd culture are bad, and you can appreciate being young while not fearing getting older.
I suspect what he's really doing is just fellating his fanbase, who are primarily young and/or nerdy.
That's kind of a mean way to put it.
Not that the effect isn't frequently the same - teenage fans can be insufferable - but it's earnest to the point of being ingenuous, not calculated, insofar as I can tell.
I don't think that's his intent in the slightest. I mean, saying, "Being young is a great part of your life and you should appreciate it while you're there," does not automatically mean, "Every other part of your life will be horrible and drab and why bother living it?" Likewise, telling insecure nerdy kids to be proud of their enthusiasm for subjects that not everyone is into is not the same as the promotion of the cliquish insularity and obsessiveness of fandom.
Not everything is black and white like that. You can be happily nerdy and still think that certain aspects of nerd culture are bad, and you can appreciate being young while not fearing getting older.
Sure, nothing's black and white. That's why I'm so critical about absolutes. I am young, and I am something akin to a "nerd".
But I don't see that at all from the man. Especially when he goes; "omg nerd girls are the greatest thing in the world, they're amazing, nothing like them, treasure them like they're the very sarira relics of Jesus Dalai Lama Christ"
Dude really seems to think he's being brave by having a movie with a female protagonist
I mean, sure, that's kind of a dumb thing to think in the year 2014, but I don't think it really causes any harm.
I guess the concern is that the Fault in Our Stars movie might cause John Green fans to attribute to him feminist innovations in film/writing that should be rightfully attributed to other people, but that's not really John Green's own fault.
as will the "Macklemore is racist and thinks he saved the gays" meme, and several others like it.
the Jewish stereotype costume was pretty racist though
I personally chalk that up with it being an unfortunate not-all-that-thought-up-well coincidence
I have looked over basically every possible aspect of the Macklemore "phenomenon", and the best explanation I have come up with is that dude just does not have a lot of self-awareness.
That's not to excuse the costume though which was actually pretty offensive as I understand it.
Buuuut the costume's also not why people were saying Macklemore was racist in the first place.
If you want another example, people busting on Lorde for being racist and anti-feminist.
But I think 90% of why people think Macklemore is racist is because he dares to be a white rapper and that's still not allowed.
No. No no no no no. Let me stop you here.
It's not that he's a white rapper, it's that he's a certain kind of white rapper.
People tolerate and hell, love, Eminem, Action Bronson, Yelawolf, El-P, and even Mac Miller nowadays.
People are mad about Macklemore because he's a "conscious" (or however you want to phrase it) rapper and is also white, and is thus rapping about issues that do not directly relate to the community from which hip-hop usually comes (ie. the urban black community).
Some of it is legitimate concern about hip-hop being whitefaced, and that's valid. What's not valid is the people who cry "racist!" to cover up the fact that they're not comfortable with the idea of a man rapping about supporting gay rights.
This is without even getting into the tumblr crowd who generally just hate him because well, all their friends do.
Macklemore mostly strikes me as earnestly shallow, so I agree.
I was talking about Green, but Macklemore... yeah, same applies, but not you're wrong. He's a party rapper with higher aspirations that doesn't have the skill or nuance to match his ambitions.
But I think 90% of why people think Macklemore is racist is because he dares to be a white rapper and that's still not allowed.
No. No no no no no. Let me stop you here.
It's not that he's a white rapper, it's that he's a certain kind of white rapper.
People tolerate and hell, love, Eminem, Action Bronson, Yelawolf, El-P, and even Mac Miller nowadays.
People are mad about Macklemore because he's a "conscious" (or however you want to phrase it) rapper and is also white, and is thus rapping about issues that do not directly relate to the community from which hip-hop usually comes (ie. the urban black community).
Some of it is legitimate concern about hip-hop being whitefaced, and that's valid. What's not valid is the people who cry "racist!" to cover up the fact that they're not comfortable with the idea of a man rapping about supporting gay rights.
This is without even getting into the tumblr crowd who generally just hate him because well, all their friends do.
Comments
As much as I understand that impulse to tear down celebrities who present themselves as "nice guys", there has yet to be any proof that they're being insincere with the emotions they exhibit in their artwork. Until proof arises, I'm not going to join in the witch hunt against them.
Unless I'm misreading you and you're not all that angry
I have trouble working out other people's emotions
I admit that his anti-fans have gotten me curious about reading his stuff more in-depth, however, so that I can flesh out my own opinions on it. Similarly, the Macklemore anti-fans got me to actually listen to The Heist, when I otherwise wouldn't have been particularly interested in it.
Anti-anti hype is a weird drug.
I mean, sure, that's kind of a dumb thing to think in the year 2014, but I don't think it really causes any harm.
I guess the concern is that the Fault in Our Stars movie might cause John Green fans to attribute to him feminist innovations in film/writing that should be rightfully attributed to other people, but that's not really John Green's own fault. I have looked over basically every possible aspect of the Macklemore "phenomenon", and the best explanation I have come up with is that dude just does not have a lot of self-awareness.
That's not to excuse the costume though which was actually pretty offensive as I understand it.
Buuuut the costume's also not why people were saying Macklemore was racist in the first place.
If you want another example, people busting on Lorde for being racist and anti-feminist.
Was it just that they were around early on in rap's history?
It's not that he's a white rapper, it's that he's a certain kind of white rapper.
People tolerate and hell, love, Eminem, Action Bronson, Yelawolf, El-P, and even Mac Miller nowadays.
People are mad about Macklemore because he's a "conscious" (or however you want to phrase it) rapper and is also white, and is thus rapping about issues that do not directly relate to the community from which hip-hop usually comes (ie. the urban black community).
Some of it is legitimate concern about hip-hop being whitefaced, and that's valid. What's not valid is the people who cry "racist!" to cover up the fact that they're not comfortable with the idea of a man rapping about supporting gay rights.
This is without even getting into the tumblr crowd who generally just hate him because well, all their friends do.
At least I'm fairly certain they're ethnic Jews as well as religious ones, I suppose I should double check. this as well