That's from the Andrew Hussie entry on 'Your Fave is Problematic', which i linked up the page.
The March Eridan thing has been discussed at length here, you don't need me to find it for you. As for the rest, you're just as capable of trawling through the thread for examples as i am, although i guess i can if you insist upon it.
Not even necessarily that; she just gets a little out of hand with her power fantasies. Openbound and the latter half of Act 6 pretty clearly demonstrate she has morals.
It's tricky; i don't think narrative context is sufficient to excuse the use of a stereotype.
It genuinely hadn't occurred to me that she was a stereotype or that she might seriously bother anyone. That YFIP page is the first time i've seen it suggested that she was offensive, and since the charge was the appropriation of AAVE with no further qualification, i figured the writer of the post was just being overzealous. i'm sorry. Clearly there is more to it than that.
It's tricky; i don't think narrative context is sufficient to excuse the use of a stereotype.
It genuinely hadn't occurred to me that she was a stereotype or that she might seriously bother anyone. That YFIP page is the first time i've seen it suggested that she was offensive, and since the charge was the appropriation of AAVE with no further qualification, i figured the writer of the post was just being overzealous. i'm sorry. Clearly there is more to it than that.
What I'm saying is that I think her position in the story and the actions she does make it difficult for me to call her an outright stereotype; her speech patterns are AAVE-ish and she definitely seems based on a "ghetto" archetype but largely this doesn't really affect what she does in the story. Her personality isn't dictated by those things.
Can i just say that as a wannabe writer this is kind of scary for me?
my experiences and understanding are so narrow and limited that this kind of thing makes me want to avoid the issues of race, sexuality and gender in my writing altogether.
But it's clear that, at some point, a fairly damaging stereotype was used to help build her character.
Again, this seems like kind of a stretch to me. The approach towards her character seems to be superficially similar to a stereotype while functionally something different, and I think the difference in approach makes a pretty big difference.
In fact, Nepeta definitely doesn't have a hat. Given the fact that Meenah only has the bandanna in this context, I'm wont to believe that it was indeed just a pirate thing.
Well, they open a chest with hats in it a few pages afterwards. Either way, I'm not sure the decision was terribly meaningful. If anything it was just a matter of her hair looking better with a bandanna than with a pirate hat.
But it's clear that, at some point, a fairly damaging stereotype was used to help build her character.
Again, this seems like kind of a stretch to me. The approach towards her character seems to be superficially similar to a stereotype while functionally something different, and I think the difference in approach makes a pretty big difference.
I don't think "superficially similar to a stereotype while functionally different" is a cogent idea, since stereotypes by nature are superficial.
Can i just say that as a wannabe writer this is kind of scary for me?
my experiences and understanding are so narrow and limited that this kind of thing makes me want to avoid the issues of race, sexuality and gender in my writing altogether.
i realize how childish this probably is.
Hmpf. That's what proofreading and editing are for.
You'll make mistakes and people who appreciate what you do will catch them before people who don't, ideally.
sometimes your mistakes will slip past the editors, and people will be hurt and people will be angry, and you'll be feeding into a culture of discrimination
and you can say that's consequentialism and that doesn't make you bad, but in the eyes of the tumblr community, it does, or they wouldn't rage so much and send people death threats
See that's why you just forget about what Tumblr thinks and realize that no matter what there will never be a work that is both good and pristine from a SJ standpoint.
Especially if you're trying to do something positive SJ-wise. You don't to be paralyzed by trying to make your message unilaterally inoffensive because there is always something to be offended by.
and when you're not writing specifically about SJ stuff, it's still worth considering whether what you're trying to convey is really something you ought to be trying to convey
of course you should consider if you're portraying the right message, but if people start inflammatorily accusing you of being something you know you're not, then frankly that's their problem, not yours
Look, all I'm saying is there is no way to make a work that is entirely airtight, SJ wise, and if you're trying to convey a positive message you're better off just conveying the message than you are trying to ensure it won't be offensive in any way.
Okay? I hope that isn't too controversial. That's all I was trying to say.
Like, say you're writing a gay character. You're given two choices:
-make the character effeminate
-make the character masculine
(obviously it's a broader spectrum than that, but just for the sake of simplicity let's say those are the two choices)
Now, if you make the character effeminate, you risk getting flak for making him too stereotypical; whereas if you make him masculine you'll get flak for still essentially catering to the people who think femininity is bad. Do you see the issue here?
You know? You're right, Tachyon. It is entirely, 100% possible to make a work of fiction that will offend absolutely no one and is entirely inclusive, and the only reason such a work has yet to be made is because no one has tried hard enough yet.
i think that if one looks hard enough one can find problems in many things, some nonexistent, others real
but one cannot address them all, fixing them will bring minimal results, and attempting to do so will only further your frustration, and for you the world will become a very lonely, scary place
so i choose to ignore the small things, the subliminal things, the unintentional and thoughtless little slights.
because if i turn my mind to them they will become a deluge and i am already waist deep
Comments
To me Meenah came across as quite likable, enough that i sometimes overlook that she's canonically villainous.
That's from the Andrew Hussie entry on 'Your Fave is Problematic', which i linked up the page.
The March Eridan thing has been discussed at length here, you don't need me to find it for you. As for the rest, you're just as capable of trawling through the thread for examples as i am, although i guess i can if you insist upon it.
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
Also stereotypical
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
Okay, that's all I've got, but that's about five signifiers in total.
It genuinely hadn't occurred to me that she was a stereotype or that she might seriously bother anyone. That YFIP page is the first time i've seen it suggested that she was offensive, and since the charge was the appropriation of AAVE with no further qualification, i figured the writer of the post was just being overzealous. i'm sorry. Clearly there is more to it than that.
Like Kex, i interpreted the bandana as a pirate thing, not a do rag.
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
But it's clear that, at some point, a fairly damaging stereotype was used to help build her character.
my experiences and understanding are so narrow and limited that this kind of thing makes me want to avoid the issues of race, sexuality and gender in my writing altogether.
i realize how childish this probably is.
Nepeta and that
or maybe i'm just wrong, it's forever since i read this comic
The issue is that it's still present.
Or at least, that a trace of it is present, as my theory professor would say.
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
You'll make mistakes and people who appreciate what you do will catch them before people who don't, ideally.
But i mean, for me, Meenah is a sort of glam ghetto princess, and it never occurred to me that this might be offensive, it was just kind of cool.
i mean i'm a white rural Brit who has never been anywhere near an actual ghetto in his life
clearly i can educate myself, but before now i wouldn't even have guessed there was a problem, if that makes sense
sometimes your mistakes will slip past the editors, and people will be hurt and people will be angry, and you'll be feeding into a culture of discrimination
and you can say that's consequentialism and that doesn't make you bad, but in the eyes of the tumblr community, it does, or they wouldn't rage so much and send people death threats
No, that's not the way to think.
If you don't aim to get it right, you won't even come close.
it feeds into the wider culture
why not just tell people you have a problem with what they're saying, instead of acting shocked at their stupidity or offensiveness or whatever
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
You have learned something new. An opinion. Incorporate it into your consciousness and refer to it in future occurrences where it may be relevant.
That is all I ask of you
No need for apologies
too often, SJ movements alienate the people they purport to speak for because they aren't intersectional enough
that's the precise reason the term 'intersectionality' was coined, in fact
read bell hooks
Okay? I hope that isn't too controversial. That's all I was trying to say.