"Don't give someone an embarrassing name, they're stuck with it for life"

Tachyon · 2016-05-27 03:16:30

idk what to make of this i guess

i'm sorry if i sound unduly sceptical, i'm not sure if it's coming from a place of feminism or culture shock

Sredni Vashtar · 2016-05-27 03:18:27

So you don't have entitled nouveau riche housewives in people carriers doing that over there?

Tachyon · 2016-05-27 03:22:12

Well probably we do, but i've not seen anyone where i work who really fits that description?

Well we don't have so many big cars here, to start off with. i mean i think if 'soccer moms' have an equivalent here it wouldn't be a perfect match because, as with all stereotypes, it has culturally specific aspects.

Kinda like it'd be sort of odd and inaccurate to start talking about 'chavs' in the USA, i would think, even setting aside whether it's fair to describe any individual as such.

LW · 2016-05-27 03:23:08

Tachyon said:
idk what to make of this i guess

i'm sorry if i sound unduly sceptical, i'm not sure if it's coming from a place of feminism or culture shock

I think it's both possible for there to be people who have acted in ways that resemble a stereotypical "soccer mom" and for the stereotype to be partly attributable to general societal perceptions about how men and women should act. I hadn't really thought about the latter possibility much, but you make an interesting point. I mean, "soccer mom" is definitely a gendered term and it does seem like there are some assumptions about middle-class moms wrapped up in that stereotype.

Obā-san · 2016-05-27 03:24:17

it's definitely a combo thing

there are without a doubt people who fit the stereotype, but the codification is due at least in part to misogyny

Obā-san · 2016-05-27 03:25:33

i.e. men pitching a hissy fit at a cashier are just some dude who is an asshole, women doing the same are A Type

which i don't think invalidates the category

Sredni Vashtar · 2016-05-27 03:28:53

Probably, but... I lived in the 'burbs long enough to realise that a lot of these stereotypes have very strong roots in the real world, to a bizarre degree.

Crystal · 2016-05-27 03:32:56

"Think of the children!" is the big part for me. It's like communicating with a conservative pseudo-activist (or if I were rude or in some cases more specific, "armchair activist"), and thinks that by being a mother and have political opinions makes them The Crusaders; which in turn, honestly, just reminds me of other types of lite activists. Not that that excuses misogynistic rhetoric from those who disagree with them, and is unfortunately as much of A Thing (of course).

Of course, in my personal experience, talking over marginalized groups is not uncommon, as such types are wont to do.

Tachyon · 2016-05-27 03:36:22

Today is Tomorrow said:
i.e. men pitching a hissy fit at a cashier are just some dude who is an asshole, women doing the same are A Type

which i don't think invalidates the category

i would say it does, i guess

'moral crusader' strikes me as more neutral, and with fewer gendered and class aspects

Obā-san · 2016-05-27 03:40:19

i see that but like, if you're gonna throw out categories like that because they're to some degree influenced by pervasive bigotry in our society, you're gonna be tossing some babies out with all that bathwater

which isn't to say that im a big bathwater fan

Tachyon · 2016-05-27 03:44:13

i guess

i'll be honest, this is sort of reminding me of how i felt about 'hipster' way back, or stuff about 'white people' where it seems to actually mean 'young middle class liberals who buy fresh produce'

and the 'they're dime a dozen' kind of struck me as off, just kinda in the way that, like, although i've met people who suggested various stereotypes, i've never really *known* a person who i'd consider an example of a stereotype

Tachyon · 2016-05-27 03:51:32

That is, reminding me in the sense that, i guess, they're stereotypes but they're not stereotypes anyone i know in meatspace would reference. That's not entirely true because we get American TV shows, but even then they're recognizably the products of certain cultural assumptions and socioeconomic conditions that are specific to the United States, or at least foreign to the UK, and yet i see people on the internet referencing these stereotypes like they're some kind of universal thing.

Also the fact that they're the kinds of label other people apply to you whether you like it or not, when you're just trying to do what comes natural to you and have no intention of conforming to a stereotype.

Bee · 2016-05-27 04:08:43

Sredni Vashtar said:
Probably, but... I lived in the 'burbs long enough to realise that a lot of these stereotypes have very strong roots in the real world, to a bizarre degree.

Yeah, it's one of those weird uncomfortable things where the stereotype really did come from somewhere.

Familial gender roles in America have been entrenched pretty deeply in a way that's only starting to be shaken back out -- much more so than in Western Europe. When I was little, it was very, very common for suburban families to be breadwinner guy + homemaker gal, which meant that moms were usually the ones that most often ended up going to the kids' midday games. Naturally, the stereotype is made by the most memorably obnoxious -- and oh sweet God, they do exist and make themselves known.

The closest male analogue is probably the obnoxious asshole at the bar watching the other kind of football. Because those are, overwhelmingly, male.

Bee · 2016-05-27 04:13:48

Today is Tomorrow said:
i see that but like, if you're gonna throw out categories like that because they're to some degree influenced by pervasive bigotry in our society, you're gonna be tossing some babies out with all that bathwater

which isn't to say that im a big bathwater fan

This, basically

Tachyon · 2016-05-27 04:17:51

Well i guess coming from a place where 'soccer mom' just isn't a term people use, it doesn't really feel like there's any baby here in danger of being tossed out, if you see where i'm coming from.

Like i've always gotten by just fine without the term.

If someone's being a jerk i don't see any reason to associate that with their gender, or whether they take their kids to play football or whatever.

Sredni Vashtar · 2016-05-27 04:18:38

Bee said:

Sredni Vashtar said:
Probably, but... I lived in the 'burbs long enough to realise that a lot of these stereotypes have very strong roots in the real world, to a bizarre degree.
Yeah, it's one of those weird uncomfortable things where the stereotype really did come from somewhere.

Familial gender roles in America have been entrenched pretty deeply in a way that's only starting to be shaken back out -- much more so than in Western Europe. When I was little, it was very, very common for suburban families to be breadwinner guy + homemaker gal, which meant that moms were usually the ones that most often ended up going to the kids' midday games. Naturally, the stereotype is made by the most memorably obnoxious -- and oh sweet God, they do exist and make themselves known.

The closest male analogue is probably the obnoxious asshole at the bar watching the other kind of football. Because those are, overwhelmingly, male.

It's also worth noting that this situation frees up time for said mothers to be more actively involved in community activities such as parent-teacher associations, school fundraisers, and so forth, leading to the sort of adult girl-cliques you see parodied so often in American media. The culture creates the trope.

^ Again, it's a very American phenomenon, and while there are English equivalents, they're just not that culturally entrenched or recognisable.

Imipolex G · 2016-05-27 04:18:56

It's an American thing, I guess.

At any rate, let me assure you, these people exist. And they are hella irritating.

Sredni Vashtar · 2016-05-27 04:20:43

OK, short answer: American!Petunia Dursley.

Tachyon · 2016-05-27 04:24:27

Petunia Dursley is just, like, bigoted nouveau riche housewife

there's a definite element of class and gender stereotyping in there, but you wouldn't go, 'oh, she is *such* a nouveau riche housewife' because that's clearly not the problem

Sredni Vashtar · 2016-05-27 04:29:58

I was thinking more "nauseous grasping narrow-minded Thatcherite with no respect for others." Which is really what all this is shorthand for: The offensive part is not the state of being a woman who drives her kids to sports practice, but the sort of difficult, unpleasant person who, due to cultural factors, happens to *be* such an individual, more often than not.

Tachyon · 2016-05-27 04:31:20

surely there exist basically nice people who drive their kids to sports practice who sometimes, on a bad day perhaps, get perceived as soccer moms

Sredni Vashtar · 2016-05-27 04:33:14

Of course.

But that's not really what we're talking about here. I'm not even sure where this all came from or where it's going.

Odradek · 2016-05-27 04:34:14

Well I don't think the soccer mom stereotype is as negative as we're making it out to be

Sometimes it means "stressed out mom who still finds time to make sure her kids are doing good"

Sredni Vashtar · 2016-05-27 04:35:49

True.

It's hard to explain to a non-America because it's a product of conditions that are almost uniquely American.

Tachyon · 2016-05-27 04:35:51

Sredni Vashtar said:
But that's not really what we're talking about here. I'm not even sure where this all came from or where it's going.

"soccer moms give their kids weird names"

even though, like, giving your child a non-conventional name has nothing whatsoever to do with taking your kids to sports practice, or for that matter, being transphobic, or yelling at customer service people

Sredni Vashtar · 2016-05-27 04:38:40

Tachyon said:
"soccer moms give their kids weird names"

even though, like, giving your child a non-conventional name has nothing whatsoever to do with taking your kids to sports practice, or for that matter, being transphobic, or yelling at customer service people

The long version is, "There's this weird trend with certain upper middle class white suburban folks of a vaguely conservative bent to give their children these increasingly elaborate and bizarre first names."

Tachyon · 2016-05-27 04:39:16

i guess basically this is an expression which i have never really understood and which has always sort of bothered me and since it came up here i took that as an opportunity to ask about it and also to voice my objections to it

Corvina · 2016-05-27 04:47:00

If I ever get to name a kid, it'll be "Lestat"

glennmagusharvey · 2016-05-27 17:29:37

I think "soccer mom" is arguably a set of different stereotypes rolled together.

In contrast/addition to the ones you all named, I know it as basically "women who vote Republican because they're concerned about security/terrorism issues".

Tre · 2016-05-27 21:33:51

I honestly wasn't aware that the soccer mom stereotype included conservatism at all, though I guess it isn't an earth-shattering revelation.

I figured it was mostly just in reference to that whole "husband, 2.5 kids and a dog" housewife idea that American culture has perpetuated for the past few generations, albeit maybe slightly less 1950's in milieu.

buttercrispy · 2016-05-28 20:06:10

my mom is a lower-middle-class democrat soccer mom variant.

I have a reasonable y instead of i substitute, but it is still a y. Middle name is Elyse, my best friend spells hers with the i.

I cringe almost every time she makes a phone call to a call center. As someone who worked at one, she sure isn't pleasant about it at all. The word "Manager" from her mouth gives me an upset stomach.

"Don't give someone an embarrassing name, they're stuck with it for life"

Comments

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories