Are Taxes theft?

Ace Rimmer

Well, are they because I'm not so sure anymore

Gelzo

Arguably. You have to first define theft and recognize that perhaps not all activities that fall under that definition are necessarily bad.

Boney

No.

Ace Rimmer

How so Lucas?

Haven

Taxes are theft only if roads, public schools and fire departments are charity.

Beholder

No, because theft is by definition an unlawful taking of property.

Boney

^^^

See ^^ and ^.

Tnu1138

At this point I really don't care. I'm out of any sense of hope for the world in general.

Salix Babylonika

I kind of consider whether or not they fall under some technical definition of theft to be pretty much irrelevant.

I don't consider taxes bad, which is usually what this question actually means.

Justice4243

I'm a little miffed at how much is taken out of my paycheck, but the government IRS tends to fix that at the beginning of each year.

I'm more or less satisfied with the system, here at least. 

Viani

no they are not

Tnu1138

Whatever I give up on this world. Why bother when people are begging to have their Taxes raised anyway?

Gelzo

We get it, Tnu.

Salix Babylonika

Tnu, look we understand you don't like taxes, and it is okay to not like taxes.

I am not entirely sure though, what the "I give up on this world" comments do for anyone.

Just saying. 

Tachyon

I don't think I've ever heard anyone beg to have their taxes raised.

Justice4243

It seems likely that some of the Tax breaks on the wealthy will be allowed to expire in the US.

Most are still fighting the idea that they should pay higher taxes tooth and nail, however.

If it weren't for the fact that America is pioneering new territory in being in debt, though probably wouldn't even care about the taxes on the wealthy.

Basically, the money to get us out of debt has to come from somewhere, and the two houses of the US Government seem more interested in arguing about where it should come from then actually moving in a direction that results in the debt being paid off.

On the other hand, taxing people more would be bad because we're in a recession/recovering from the recession and taking away too much money from people isn't going to help the economy. 

Still, I have no issues with letting the breaks on the wealthy. These Bush era tax-cuts can't stick around forever, and working on making them go seems like a step in the right direction towards making the deficit go away.

Small business owners can suck it up, too. The money has to come from somewhere.

Mandelbrot

>that feel when everything you know about economics comes from TVT debates, so you can't properly articulate your feelings on things like this

Salix Babylonika

>dat feel

Justice4243

I find that listening to a shit ton of NPR does worlds for one's understandings of the current economic going-ons.

Tnu1138

Superglobe: I almost read that as
debt feel. as for the giving up. That's more a compilation of a lot of crap
over an extended period of time really starting to sink in, finally, Justice
why is it that the only thing ever mentioned when it comes to tax breaks is on
"the wealthy" That's not the only group that you can or should give
tax cuts on. In fact I don't believe in targeted tax cuts toward anyone based
on any factors. I don't believe in tax cuts specifically targeted at "the
wealthy" for example. It seems like your buying in to a strawman here that
says anyone who advocated low taxes is selective about who should get them.

Misery

Blah blah blah.

Tnu1138

Sorry, I got a bit wound up but I’m sick of this notion that anyone who talks about low taxes only means for a specific part of the population.

Obā-san

But I don't need a tax break.



I need a new pair of glasses and health care.

Justice4243

"Justic do why is it that the only thing ever mentioned wh en it comes to tax breaks is on "the wealthy" That's not hte only group that you can or should give tax cuts on. "

Currently, it's the only group that's being humored as having their tax increased because doing it on the other classes would hinder their spending ability and likely hurt the economy more than help.

At least that seems to be the thinking in Washington.

I'm sure once the economy settles down, the'll talk about removing the Bush era tax breaks on the lower classes, as well.

"It seems like your buying in to a strawman here that

says anyone who advocated low taxes is selective about who should get them."

You're making some pretty staggering logic leaps here in the absence of really understanding my full position.

Tnu1138

So wait removing tax break s on the lower classes is also a good thing? Also Naney yo u're assuming that's the only way you'll ever be able to get those htigns.

Obā-san

What way?

Tnu1138

Meh nevermind. I don't care anymore like I said. I've been beaten down far too much by everyone telling me that my fiscally conservative ideals are wrong, ignorant, or evil, that I just don't care anout anything anymroe and am just trying to figureout how to tie a noose.

Justice4243

Getting out of debt is a good thing, there are few ways to do it.

Eventually, we will likely have to remove the Bush era tax breaks on everyone as part of a "get out of debt plan".

It's certainly one of the easier ways to go about it, because they keep on showing up on the chopping block as per how they where written into law.

Tnu1138

Who actually has the power to set the taxes anyway? I'll have to look over the constitution but I think it's actually a legislative power and not an executive one. If anyone can confirm this i'd really appriciate it. You know hwat else wo uld help though? Stop raising the goddamn debt ceiling and balance the budget. What's the point of having a debt ceiling if you're not going to stick ot it?

Obā-san

It is a legislative power, and the legislature passes the budget every year.


The president proposes it, then they debate it until they reach an acceptable compromise.



And raising the debt ceiling is good for not making the world economy collapse.

Justice4243

^^Everyone agrees with you there, I'd imagine. 

We're all a bit sick of congress raising the debt ceiling each time government shutdown looms rather than working on a plan to make that unnecessary.

And yes, it is the Legislative branch (The House, specifically) that propose new taxes. The "Bush era" bit comes from the fact that they came during George W. Bush's Presidency. And probably the fact that Bush was highly in favor of them.

"And raising the debt ceiling is good for not making the world economy collapse."

It's good as a last resort, but when you have to resort to your last resort several times in a row, there does seem to be an underling problem that's not being addressed.

Misery

Holy shit, it's OTC all over again

Obā-san

Not really, no-one has tried advocating HYPOTHETICAL RACIST LOLI RAEP GENOCIDE yet.

Salix Babylonika

how would you even do that?

Actually. Don't answer that question.

Justice4243

Erm, discussing politics and economics != OTC.

When people start having passive aggressive  arguments when each other, then we can raise the "OTC duchebaggery flag".

Salix Babylonika

Tsk. Justice you're OBVIOUSLY a misogynistic homophobic feminist trying to dislocate the parallelograms of our established nigem.

Tnu1138

So what is the verdict on OTC right now. I'm going to be honest, as conservative as I am about TV Tropes, I would not miss that cesspool if it got axed.

Justice4243

"Justice you're OBVIOUSLY a misogynistic homophobic feminist trying to dislocate the parallelograms of our established nigem."

SHIT! THEY FIGURED ME OUT!

Salix Babylonika

It got two mods specific to it (Best Of and Katrika) and threads now have to be approved by a mod to be posted.

Tnu1138

I approve of Best Of as a mod but the approval thing kind of bugs me.

Justice4243

^^That sounds like the best idea ever. /sincerity mode

^It might to me if having threads that are thinly veiled attempts to complain about things wasn't a thing in OTC.

Anonus

I was thinking it was more like IJBM but I'm not sure.

(And it was before draco's time anyway, but whatever.)

Also OTC now has a queue system; threads must be approved by moderators before they appear in public.

Tnu1138

That notion is troubling.

Salix Babylonika

Why? It cuts down on the "I am going to start a thread solely to express my highly controversial opinion on this subject, fuck you if you don't like it" nonsense.

Tnu1138

Controversy is an essential part of thought, experience, and m ost importantly, free speech.

Tachyon

Guys, this is On-Topic Conversations, quit derailing.

Salix Babylonika

Free speech does not apply on a site owned by someone, for one thing.

For another, while that may be true, there is good controversy and bad controversy. The bad kind is "I think we should kill everyone in Africa. Cuz it's better than them being alive".

Guys, this is On-Topic Conversations, quit derailing.

Sure thing Bo-waaaait a minute.

Obā-san

YOUR MOM.






F**K YOU AND YOUR LAW.

Tnu1138

I'm not saying it's a legal right in this context I just defend it on principle.

Justice4243

Yay, we're in general, I'm free to do shit like this!

Salix Babylonika

Well the issue is whether or not it's a legal right (on TVTropes).

And it is not.

^Pickle-related internet content.