Sredni Vashtar Reads Homestuck

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  • ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    So, what did you feel about Murderstuck?

    It's where I left.

    I've never forgiven Hussie since.
  • it's homestuck characters die a lot and they have a tendency to still do lots of cool things after
  • edited 2013-07-18 16:11:14
    More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
    He once responded to such angry sentiments, saying that the story has to move forward and those characters were supposed to die and otherwise it would be Trolls: The Sitcom and turn into a serial comedy or something.
  • edited 2013-07-18 16:15:48
    “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    ^^^ Well, as Naney points out, "dead" does not mean "eliminated from the story." But that said, my immediate reaction... as you probably observed, I went "oh god(s)" and "oh no" a lot. Particularly when Eridan snapped and when Gamzee murdered Equius and Nepeta. I mean, the latter in particular was a great scene in terms of tone and effect, but... ugh.

    It was immensely satisfying to see Kanaya beat the ever-loving crap out of everyone at the end of that.
  • I never did like most of murderstuck. Or Hussie's justification of the whole bit.

    Despite Homestuvk's reputation for having many characters, Hussie doesn't like having extra characters floating about. And while other authors would simply have characters do their own thing once they're no longer plot-relevant, Hussie just offs them. In murderstuck, particularly, the killing of side characters is used to establish other characters (usually villains ) as awesome, which I've never supported as a good writing technique.

    The Kanaya comeback bit comes off as a bit static as well.
  • ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    Yeah, Equius and Nepeta were my favorite characters and then Gamzee freaking kills them.

    I especially hate how Equius couldn't save himself because he simply wasn't strong enough.
  • edited 2013-07-18 16:49:22
    “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    ^^ I can agree with those points, even if I did think that it was relatively well-executed. It definitely felt unfair, particularly given what he could have done with those characters. That said, he does not seem to have eliminated the possibility of future appearances by said characters entirely, which is a small but extant consolation.

    ^ Well, in Equius' case, I think it was a bit more complicated: His own internal conflict about killing someone of higher status than himself contributed just as much to his death as Gamzee's actual attack on him. Nepeta's death, on the other hand, seemed far more avoidable to me, and was therefore even more upsetting.

    ...and I just really liked her in general. That made me quite sad.
  • edited 2013-07-18 17:00:18
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    [[http://www.deviantart.com/art/Nepeta-S33k-the-highb100d-part-3-344788164 Mah Fix Fic.]]

    Yeah, even in a fix fic, it never ends well.
  • Part of the problem with Equius's death is that it ends in a punchline. A rather cheap one, drawing on his fetishes. He's the only one whose death is treated so frivolously, and that never felt quite right.

    I also didn't like Eridan's death. The fact that it came so soon after his evolution into a half-developed character makes said evolution feel petty, and lessens the importance of Feferi's death. It underlines the fact that murderstuck was designed to sweep out unnecessary characters rather than driving the plot (well, except for one or two)
  • ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    I...

    I just learned that some people ship Gamzee and Nepeta.

    I'm gonna go..  I'm gonna...

    dang, I don't even have a funny thing to do to respond to that.
  • And there's the fact that Hussie doesn't handle conflicts with multiple attackers very well. He tends to only focus on two at a time, leaving the other characters to stand around awkwardly offscreen. It's akin to how Butch Hartman does fights in Danny Phantom. That is to say, somewhat poorly.

    I do agree with Vash in that Murderstuck was very good in terms of art and viewing angles and whatnot. Just have problems with the plot.

    ^ Yeah, Gamzee apologists are on a whole other level.
  • edited 2013-07-18 17:12:31
    “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    ^^^ I actually interpreted that last beat somewhat differently: Where you saw a joke, I saw what would be a joke played for horror (or possibly both). The fact that he smiles involuntarily as he is murdered by someone "above" him is absurd, but in an extremely ghoulish way that only underlines the fatalistic tone of the scene.

    As for what happened to Eridan, I agree. While I think that having him snap like that was actually an interesting piece of character development (albeit of the disturbing kind), having him simply offed without a real fight, while viscerally satisfying, was a bit cheap and a little annoying in hindsight.

    ^^ Oh dear. That's a special kind of tasteless.

    ^ Also true, although logistically speaking I get why that would be the case. Three-way fights are... awkward.
  • Well, Hussie intended it to be a joke, if I'm remembering his Formspring correctly (it was essentially the Homestuck Bible before Hussie deleted it). But I like your interpretation of it. It might be a serial reader vs. non-serial reader thing.
  • honestly i was good with the pacing of eridan's death


    imo the anti-climactic-ness and the way it truncated his development fit him perfectly
  • edited 2013-07-18 17:24:10
    “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    ^^ Well, keep in mind that Hussie has long been notorious for phrasing answers in a way that are guaranteed to rustle as many proverbial jimmies as possible. It is possible that reading it continuously rather than serially does change one's perspective, however.

    ^ ...in a perverse way, I find that logic rather appealing. He was exactly the kind of character that would end up getting himself offed like that. Sad, but fitting.
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    And now I am on the part where Rose finds out that her mother was killed by Jack Noir.

    Hussie was running on one hell of a morbid streak here.

    Speaking of which: How does Jack manage to remain funny while murdering everyone and everything?
  • How does Jack manage to remain funny while murdering everyone and everything?
    never underestimate the power a good selection of accessories has on how people view you
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Indeed. That scene was just the most delightfully awful thing.

    In any case, I am retiring for the evening. I will continue these conversations when I arise tomorrow, or perhaps later tonight if my sleep is especially lousy. Until then, have a good night!
  • How does Jack manage to remain funny while murdering everyone and everything?
    never underestimate the power a good selection of accessories has on how people view you
    Took the words right out of my mouth.

  • edited 2013-07-18 19:58:05
    Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    I just like explaining things.

    Also, Equius may have been strong in arm, but he was weak in heart, knew it, and overcompensated. That's why he was obsessed with strength, nobility and musclebeasts. That's why he died at Gamzee's hands, because his weakness rotted away at his self-preservation.

    By extension, perhaps Nepeta died because she was curious.
  • ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    Or maybe they died because Gamzee is a Complete Monster.
  • Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    That too, but there's no denying that their downfall was because of character flaws they couldn't overcome.
  • I wouldn't exactly call Gamzee a complete monster.
  • ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    Okay, he's not Johan Liebert level, but I still see absolutely no redeeming value in him.
  • Continue reading. Just trust me.
  • ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    I did continue reading, and I still saw no redeeming value up to the present comics.

    Even though he's fighting against the person he's fighting against, I still just don't like Makara in any way, shape, or form.
  • edited 2013-07-18 21:33:57
    Spoiler:
    He does display guilt, though. Besides, it's not like he was entirely in control of his actions at the time.
  • ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    It's not like Johann was entirely in control of his actions, either.

    I guess if everyone I met ever didn't adore Gamzee to death, I might be more okay with him.
  • Aliroz said:

    I guess if everyone I met ever didn't adore Gamzee to death, I might be more okay with him.

    man from what i've seen gamzee is like the least liked homestuck character
  • ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    Dude, do you go on Deviantart?

    Or to my high school?
  • Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    That's confirmation and selection bias, Aliroz.
  • Having read up to the most recent updates, Gamzee's come off as inscrutable at best and macabre at the worst.

    It says something that I find Vriska apologists to be more sensible than Gamzee apologists.

    Matter'a'fact, Gamzee's my least favorite villain out of the Murderstuck segment. Vriska killing of Tavros, as disappointing as it was, fit very well considering the relationship between them. Same with Eridan and Feferi, though Kanaya was arguably little more than cannon fodder in that confrontation. Gamzee never had anything resembling proper motivations, besides his evil religion bit, so he functions as little more than your standard horror movie monster.
  • Aliroz said:

    I guess if everyone I met ever didn't adore Gamzee to death, I might be more okay with him.

    man from what i've seen gamzee is like the least liked homestuck character
    Out of the original trolls, I'd probably say that Eridan's the lowest-ranking, with Sollux and Gamzee as runner-ups. And probably Feferi.
  • Aliroz said:

    I guess if everyone I met ever didn't adore Gamzee to death, I might be more okay with him.

    man from what i've seen gamzee is like the least liked homestuck character
    Out of the original trolls, I'd probably say that Eridan's the lowest-ranking, with Sollux and Gamzee as runner-ups.
    huh. i would have not guessed Eridan, prolly because a lot of the artists i follow like him a lot.
  • He seems to be a popular target for artists, yes.

    My view of public opinion on him was last truly examined after the incident with Feferi and Kanaya. That may have colored my current view.

    We need a popularity tier list for this comic. Like the one that Touhou has.
  • More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
    How is Remilia more popular than Marisa? :|
  • guys im sorry to be the party pooper but i think we should leave this thread alone until vash gets back u_u
  • More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
    :o He left already? awwww
  • Huh. Marisa's dropping in the polls? That's unusual.

    Anyways, the MSPA forum still has a tier list, albeit one that's two years old.

    ^^ Fair enough.
  • More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
    lol this kind of turned into "a bunch of HS readers discuss stuff from HS."
  • More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
    Marisa was 2nd in 2008, 3rd in 2009, and then dropped to 5th in 2011. :/
  • edited 2013-07-18 22:22:51
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)

    cmon guys >:/



    No, you irish cat of legendarily catchy poetry.

    This
    swede raids your coasts, murders your owner who wrote the poem about
    you, steals your gold, and kidnaps your kittens to bring back to Sweden
    to keep the rats away.

    And, worst of all, I don't wait for Sredni.
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    squarekun:    shiftylook:    So hey, here’s the official Namco High announcement, and a hi-res image for you to have and hold in your arms forever and ever.    I have lost all of my understanding of the world I live in

    This is real
  • edited 2013-07-19 12:37:49
    “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”

    Aliroz said:

    I guess if everyone I met ever didn't adore Gamzee to death, I might be more okay with him.

    man from what i've seen gamzee is like the least liked homestuck character


    Out of the original trolls, I'd probably say that Eridan's the lowest-ranking, with Sollux and Gamzee as runner-ups. And probably Feferi.



    The old chart indicates that you're basically spot-on, or were in late 2011. Exception: Equius scored lower than Gamzee. This surprises me less than it really should.

    As for thoughts on Gamzee: Up to this point, the inexplicability of his sudden flip worked for me in that it made me curious as to why he was behaving this way in the first place and made his behaviour more unsettling overall. The change in his Strife Specibus, in particular, indicated that something strange was up. However, enigma of that kind can only go so far before it just loses any verisimilitude. If there is no reason by the end of the comic, I will be irked.


    cmon guys >:/


    I am back now.

    Thank you for thinking of me, love.
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Where I was when I left: Rose beating herself up during her conversation with Jade. I will resume momentarily.
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Just a brief, unrelated aside: In the somewhat more anarchic Minor Characters Rankings, both the consort holding SORD in the scene where Dave loses his shades and Dave's laser bed have more votes than Vodka Mutini. I am mildly baffled.
  • There were 74 or less voters in that thing. The statistical wonkiness of such a sample size is probably the reason.

    That, and voters didn't have a set list to choose from. They picked their choices from what was recent and in their minds, and from what other voters picked.

    I'm guessing that Vodka wasn't mentioned until late in the thread's life, compounded with the fact that nobody had seen him/her for a while before that.
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