General Video Game Thread

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  • Admittedly, my first reaction about it was 'wow, that sounds really stupid', but I wasn't going to buy the game anyway, so I didn't think any more about it beyond that.
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    Speaking of: I'm replaying Bloodborn and holy shit, who thought blood vials were a good idea
  • At some point, you gotta come to terms with the fact that not all game mechanics are made for all players. The beauty of BotW then us that it has such a range of mechanics that people can enjoy it even if one of the minor mechanics is a bit of a sticking point.

    Look I'm just always interested in making big agreeable AAA games more appealing to a wider audience.

    And I also tire of people putting complaints on the wrong things.
  • image Wee yea erra chs hymmnos mea.
    Admittedly, my first reaction about it was 'wow, that sounds really stupid', but I wasn't going to buy the game anyway, so I didn't think any more about it beyond that.
    In practice, it mostly functions as a flavour thing, more than anything. Like how there's a character you have to visit three days in a row as he gradually tells a story to you.
  • kill living beings
    according to wikipedia, breath of the wild is the best selling game for switch

    i think it's fine
  • Well, there we go. I'm not particularly concerned with accessibility in a AAA game bearing a grand old lineage and backed by Nintendo. Triple A games are already at maximum gameplay accessibility by default; one game presenting a bit more of an emotional challenge isn't gonna tip the scales. As long as it does what it's supposed to do, it's fine.

    Not that your arguments are inherently without worth, mind you. It's just a hill I don't feel like fighting on. I'm more concerned with accessibility when it comes to notoriously inclusive genres, like fighting games.
  • Hell, we've had more than a few game series where making things more accessible to the uninitiated arguably backfired.
  • according to wikipedia, breath of the wild is the best selling game for switch


    i think it's fine
    I don't know what you think I'm arguing, that this would be your response.
  • well generally accessibility implies that the game will sell better (that's the theory of the matter, anyway).

    I don't really have an opinion on this because I've never played BOTW, though I'm also not sure what about Hexartes' thought experiment is apparently so disagreeable. 

    I will say, fundamentally I don't see a difference between weapon durability as a mechanic and say, ammo limitations in a limited arsenal FPS. I've always wondered why people had a problem with it.
  • kill living beings
    you said you wanted it to have different mechanics so that more people could play it

    but it's already got a shitload of people playing it
  • My dreams exceed my real life

    They had a blood quota to match

    It's like

    You go back to Demon's Souls' healing system, which was bad and already improved on by DS1 and DS2

    And then you MAKE IT WORSE by making blood vials cost more as the game goes on???
  • you said you wanted it to have different mechanics so that more people could play it


    but it's already got a shitload of people playing it
    That's kind of a reduction of what I was saying :/
  • Jane said:

    well generally accessibility implies that the game will sell better (that's the theory of the matter, anyway).


    I don't really have an opinion on this because I've never played BOTW, though I'm also not sure what about Hexartes' thought experiment is apparently so disagreeable. 

    I will say, fundamentally I don't see a difference between weapon durability as a mechanic and say, ammo limitations in a limited arsenal FPS. I've always wondered why people had a problem with it.
    presumably because melee, in both FPSes and other genres like RPGs, is generally considered to be the default option that doesn't require resource management, versus guns or magick.
  • Touch the cow. Do it now.
    they shoulda just given Link a bazooka
  • kill living beings
    you said you wanted it more accessible

    i am saying that it is empirically already super accessible, so it doesn't seem like it should be a big concern
  • It's not a huge concern! It was just a small thought I had that I posted on a web forum.
  • kill living beings
    ok
  • Now I'm thinking about the time mechanic in Lightning Returns, where the concept of it existing puts people off playing the game, since they have no way of knowing it's actually super lenient.

    Speaking of time mechanics and putting people off from playing games, I've been warned that it's more stringent (possibly by you? I forget) in Atelier Firis than Atelier Sophie, but I still feel that if I were to pick up one of those two I want Firis because Firis inspired me more with its trailer.
  • edited 2017-09-18 14:52:15
    imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    apropos of nothing much: Sonic Heroes was not a bad game, imo

    Sonic Adventure was a flawed-but-enjoyable game which does not compare favourably to the older Super Mario 64.  SA2 was a less flawed, more enjoyable game, better designed and fixed a bunch of technical issues, Heroes was better yet

    it had a bunch of issues, of which the worst was the requirement that you play through the same set of levels 4 times and complete a bunch of boring "bonus stages" to unlock the ending

    but that's a minor complaint compared to the problems the SA titles had, and compared to the problems w/ Shadow and Sonic 2006 it's very minor indeed
  • image Wee yea erra chs hymmnos mea.
    The biggest issue in Sonic Heroes was that the Chaotix levels existed.
  • I've learned to tolerate drama...except on the boat
    Sonic Adventure would be great if it weren't such a mess

    The music...the HUBS!
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch

    The biggest issue in Sonic Heroes was that the Chaotix levels existed.

    fair

    partly i think the issue there was they wanted to have a collectathon in levels that were obviously designed to be linear obstacle courses

    (this was even more of a problem in shadow)

    in general collecting stuff seems like a mechanic that's easy to do badly and hard to get right, Rare nailed it in Banjo-Kazooie but missed the mark in DK64, for instance


    Anonus said:

    Sonic Adventure would be great if it weren't such a mess

    The music...the HUBS!

    it was a seriously ambitious game but it was buggy and the character animations were ugly, the sound effects didn't fit and were immersion-breaking, the level design was sloppy and it had the worst, most frustrating camera of any 3D Sonic i ever played

    i like it.  it had some entertaining music and a variety of interesting environments to run around in.
  • image Wee yea erra chs hymmnos mea.
    egg viper
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    GET A LOAD OF THIS
  • Sonic

    Heroes

    was good.

    SA2 was okay, but frustrating at times. Level design and mechanics could make things a bit of a slog, especially in Knuckles/Rogue stages.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    i don't actually own a copy of SA2

    my brother's friend left his copy here and doesn't want it back because he got stuck on the Pumpkin Hill stage and got too sick of the music to keep playing
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    I AINT GONNA LET IT GET TO ME IM JUST GONNA CREEP
    DOWN IN PUMPKIN HILL I GOTS TO FIND MY LOST PIECE
    I KNOW THAT ITS HERE I SENSE IT IN MY FEET
    THE GREAT EMERALDS POWER ALLOWS ME TO FEEL
    I CANT SEE A THING BUT ITS AROUND SOMEWHERE
    I GONNA HOLD MY HEAD CUZ I HAVE NO FEAR
    THIS PROBABLY SEEMS CRAZY CRAZY A GRAVEYARD THEORY
    A GHOST TRIED TO APPROACH ME AND GOT LEERY
    ASKED HIM A QUESTION AND HE VANISHED IN A SECOND
    IM WALKING THRU VALLEYS CRYIN PUMPKIN IN THE ALLEY
    DIDNT SEEM HAPPY BUT THEY SURE TRIED TO GET ME
    HAD TO BACK EM UP WITH THE FIST METAL CRACK EM
    I HEARIN SOMEONE SAYIN YOU A CHICKEN DONT BE SCARED
    IT HAD TO BE THE WIND CUZ NOBODY WASNT THERE
    I SEARCHED AND I SEARCHED AS I CLIMBED UP THE WALL
    THEN I STARTED TO FLY I WENT IN DEEPER
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    image
  • kill living beings
    That was

    Something
  • Touch the cow. Do it now.
    I'm sure glad the series ended after Sonic & Knuckles
  • edited 2017-09-18 18:50:35
    image Wee yea erra chs hymmnos mea.
  • Touch the cow. Do it now.
    I've heard good things about this series revival though
  • I'm...cautiously optimistic.  Sonic Mania is really just hiring well known romhack devs to do what everyone already loved them for.  The actual Sonic Team's track record is...very up and down.  Unleashed was a step in the right direction and Generations was actually good, but then Sonic Boom was terrible.

    Forces looks like it'll be fun even if I can't stop laughing about how they've basically canonized every awful Deviantart OC out there.
  • Sonic Boom wasn't made by Sonic Team though.
  • Touch the cow. Do it now.
    at this point, what does "Sonic Team" even mean?
  • image Wee yea erra chs hymmnos mea.
    The development division of Sega literally called Sonic Team.
  • Touch the cow. Do it now.
    Are any of the original Sonic Team still on it? Like, the one from the first game?

    Or is it a NAME THAT MEANS NOTHING
  • kill living beings
    Wow lay off theseus
  • edited 2017-09-18 21:36:48
    You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022

    Are any of the original Sonic Team still on it? Like, the one from the first game?

    Or is it a NAME THAT MEANS NOTHING

    They've got one programmer from Sonic 3D Blast, a graphic designer from Sonic Labyrinth, and the janitor who cleaned the office during the development of the original & Knuckles.
  • edited 2017-09-18 22:35:55
    DYRE said:

    Sonic Boom wasn't made by Sonic Team though.

    Sonic Boom was made by Lockheed, McDonnell Douglas, Dassault, Sud Aviation/BAC, Tupolev, etc..

    It was later separately re-remade by Capcom.
  • Touch the cow. Do it now.
    none of you know anything
  • Wow lay off theseus

    is his name really theseus anymore
  • image Wee yea erra chs hymmnos mea.
    imageI feel personally attacked.
  • edited 2017-09-19 13:28:22
    imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch

    Are any of the original Sonic Team still on it? Like, the one from the first game?

    Or is it a NAME THAT MEANS NOTHING

    Actually a really good question, and the answer is . . . not exactly.  There hasn't been a consistent Sonic Team that has existed since the original Sonic the Hedgehog, at any rate.

    To elaborate: there was a disagreement, between Sonic the Hedgehog programmer Yuji Naka and the bosses at Sega.  Consequently the original Sonic Team split into two "divisions" (not actually formal divisions) after the first game, one of which (including Yuji Naka and game designer Hirokazu Yasuhara) moved to California and joined the Sega Technical Institute.  This division was responsible for the development of Sonic 2, and subsequently Sonic 3 & Knuckles, while the Japanese division (headed by character designer Naoto Oshima) was responsible for Sonic CD, also originally intended to be Sonic 2.  Considering the extent to which the Sonic series has always envisioned itself as a rival to Mario, it's kind of amusing to me that this resulted in a Bros. 2/Lost Levels parallel of sorts.  Note that at this point, officially, there was no Sonic Team.  The name was still in use but there was no such division within either Sega in Japan or the Sega Technical Institute.

    After that things get kind of confusing.  You had various spin-offs developed by teams with at most tangential connection to the original Sonic Team.  Knuckle's Chaotix was developed by members of the Sonic Team in Japan but not including any of the older more experienced team members.  Sonic Spinball was created by American staff at the Sega Technical Institute while the Japanese staff worked on Sonic 3.

    After Sonic & Knuckles, Yuji Naka moved back to Japan while Hirokazu Yasuhara remained in California. This is the point where the name Sonic Team was officially revived and refers to an actual entity.  Under this name, Naka collaborated with Oshima on Sonic Adventure and the non-Sonic title NiGHTS into Dreams, and with the British company Traveller's Tales on Sonic 3D Blast and Sonic R.  It should be noted that neither Naka nor Oshima led the work on Adventure, with game design led by Takashi Iizuka who previously worked on Sonic & Knuckles, visual design led by Kazuyuki Hoshino of Sonic CD and Knuckles' Chaotix, and programming led by Tetsu Katano who previously worked on Sonic 3D Blast and Sonic Jam.  To some extent i think this explains the significant differences between Adventure and previous Sonic titles, although of course technological development also accounts for some of them.

    After Adventure Oshima quit to found Artoon, while Naka and Sonic Team worked on a bunch of non-Sonic related titles including Billy Hatcher, Chu Chu Rocket, the Phantasy Star Online games and the Rub Rabbits titles.  Meanwhile Takashi Iizuka and just 10 other members of Sonic Team founded Sonic Team USA and created Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes. i would argue that this team seems to have learned a number of lessons from the original SA and that these games show significant improvement wrt level design, camera and graphics and that the games are actually fun to play, but they're still plagued with many of the same bugs and issues that made SA unpopular.

    So at this point there were two Sonic Teams.  The Japanese Sonic Team went on to develop the beloved Sonic Advance series (in collaboration with Dimps), the Sonic Riders games, and the glitchy as all hell Sonic 2006.  Meanwhile Sonic Team USA worked on Shadow the Hedgehog, during the production of which their name was changed to Sega Studio USA.  During this period especially, the games were produced under tight deadlines with limited resources and a high amount of executive meddling, which might account for their inconsistent middling-to-poor quality.  Sonic 2006 was apparently the project from hell, the pressure so great that a number of team members quit the project.  One group, Yuji Naka among them, went independent, while another formed yet another Sonic Team within Sega and began work on Sonic and the Secret Rings.  Sega made no changes to the deadline in response to the drastically smaller team and Sonic 2006 was released unfinished, with innumerable bugs, nonsensical physics and crappy level design.

    So then you had Sonic Team working on 3D titles The Secret Rings, Unleashed and The Black Knight, as well as overseeing the production of the 2D throwback Sonic 4, created by Dimps of Sonic Advance and Sonic Rush fame.  Shockingly, it's the 3D titles that hold up better here; i'm not sure how Dimps managed to screw this up so badly but Sonic 4 was very poorly received.

    For Colors, Generations and Lost World, Sonic Team brought onboard the writing team from Happy Tree Friends, of all people.  Apparently they did a pretty good job?  From what i've seen Colors and Generations were pretty well received, although i've played neither of them.
  • Colors is my favorite Sonic game altho the writing is not really why.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    tl;dr Sonic Team then and Sonic Team now are completely different groups of people, also Sonic Team was formally disbanded and existed in name only for a period, also there have been multiple Sonic Teams existing at the same time in different points in the franchise history
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    Jane said:

    Colors is my favorite Sonic game altho the writing is not really why.

    no i heard the game design was a significant improvement, although i think the story was also lighter than the 2006-Shadow-Adventure titles?
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