General Computer Thread

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  • what does VGA show on bad cables?
  • THIS MACHINE KILLS FASCISTS
    Ghosting, blurry text, things like that. It's more noticeable on old CRT screens; it can show up on LCD screens, though it'll also make it difficult for the auto-adjust to do its thing.

    Years ago, my little brothers were using a hand-me-down workstation monitor with BNCs on the back, and the picture on that thing was always blurry, probably because my other brother insisted on making the cable himself.
  • oh, those things!

    i always chalked them up to artifacts of using CRTs, since they basically disappeared when I started using LCD screens.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    so i'm saving for a new computer, and i was wondering if i could get some advice, please?  because i don't know that much about computers, and i know a lot of you guys know a lot about them

    like, should i build my own, which i have never done before, or buy a prebuilt one?  what would i need to know before building a PC?  what OS should i get (i'm thinking i'll probably just go with Windows 10 unless there's good reason not to)?

    i have a fairly clear idea what i want.  i want a desktop, rather than a laptop.  i want to be able to use it for work stuff, but i'd also like to play games on it, preferably including ones that won't run on my current laptop like Amnesia

    also like, Skyrim with mods, that's something i'd like to try
  • edited 2016-02-18 03:53:14
    imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    also USB 3.0 or better
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    I feel like unless you have some really specific components in mind, it'd be way less of a hassle to buy a prebuilt computer than to assemble your own. But of course it's up to you.

    As for operating systems, I personally like Windows 10, but you can still buy Windows 7 if you'd prefer to use that. Of course, if you buy a prebuilt machine, it'll probably have Windows 10 preinstalled.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    if i buy windows 7 are microsoft gonna keep hassling me to upgrade?

    also i heard it might be cheaper to build my own
  • edited 2016-02-18 04:11:53
    kill living beings
    building a PC is definitely less easy than buying one BUT: it's seriously pretty easy. i'm honestly not saying that to you because i'm A Computer Person, it's legit easy. the hard part is choosing the components. once you actually have them putting them together is easy. and to choose components you can use something like logical increments if you're totally unconfident.

    if you build a PC you know what goes into it and you'll feel more confident when you need to fix something or swap something out. also it's probably cheaper.
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    Actually, thinking about it, building your own PC might be a good option even just if you'd like to learn more about how a PC is put together.
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    And yeah, they'll probably keep bugging you about Windows 10 upgrades, but Windows 7 is still under support for a few more years...
  • kill living beings
    windows 10 is supposed to be the Forevermore Windows so yeah they're going to hassle you forever.
  • TreTre
    edited 2016-02-18 04:15:16
    image
    Can't say I know what it's like to actually go through the process of building one since mine was a gift, but I want to do it before I die.

    I love having a custom build, though, since it gives you a lot of freedom for when you want more storage space or RAM or whatever, while with prefab it's a bit more limited (though not impossible) in that regard.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    Thanks for the logical increments link Klino, that looks very helpful.

    How a PC is put together is something that does interest me, and it sounds as though the advantages of a custom build outweigh the initial convenience of buying an existing model
  • edited 2016-02-18 04:25:06
    If you decide to build, PCPartPicker is useful for planning everything out. There are also lots of guides online both for picking parts and doing the actual building.

    The building process is a little time-consuming but I remember most steps being fairly unstressful. (There's always the "oops I need a longer cable" type issues, though...)
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    Thanks!  Bookmarked that link, as well as Klino's.

    Would having a custom build put me at a disadvantage should something break?

    Like on the one hand it'd be easy to replace it if i knew a particular component was faulty, but i'm guessing it'd be harder to get it repaired?
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    I don't see that it would be that big an issue. You wouldn't have a warranty for the entire PC, of course, but all the individual components should still have their own warranties...
  • Tachyon said:

    Like on the one hand it'd be easy to replace it if i knew a particular component was faulty, but i'm guessing it'd be harder to get it repaired?

    I don't know if it should make that much of a difference? A PC is a PC, you can't say it's only a half if someone knows how to repair a prebuilt one they should be able to repair yours too. It's not a situation I've had to deal with, though.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    Fair enough

    i'm heavily leaning towards building my own

    i'll have a read of those links and figure what exactly it is i want

    thanks for the help
  • edited 2016-02-18 04:53:18
    kill living beings
    here is the super basics of how a PC is built.

    PCs are basically modular, so the main issue is getting everything to cooperate with everything else. This is done through a variety of physical and software protocol definitions, which are varyingly standardized. For example, pretty much any hard drive you buy will use the SATA standard to communicate with your motherboard, so you don't need to worry about compatibility, but your CPU might use an AM3 socket where your mobo has a G1, and that's that.

    you need these parts:
    • case. pretty self explanatory, but you do need it to fit everything, which is sometimes a challenge. also, it has the external holes, so make sure it has convenient holes for usb ports, cd drives if you want them, headphones, power, stuff. it might come with its own actual usb ports and not just holes, so note that too.
    • fans. try to get a case that comes with them.
    • motherboard ("mobo" if you're hip & with it). what everything else plugs into. this has a "form factor", which is its physical size and a few other things; pretty much any usual one is a 'standard ATX' and should fit most cases. the motherboard is where most ports of the computer are going to be, so see that it has what you want. the motherboard also has a socket for the CPU, and you have to make sure the motherboard socket matches the CPU socket. the motherboard is also what you plug RAM into, but that just means you gotta make sure you have the same DDR revision number on motherboard and RAM.
    • power supply (PSU). this is a box that takes mains power and outputs appropriately stable power supply for the various computer parts. choosing this might seem like it's important but it's usually not. everything is standardized enough in this area that you don't really need to worry about the details. just get one that seems reliable enough.
    • CPU. gotta go fast. remember the motherboard socket thing. getting one that comes with a heat sink/fan might be nice. advice about What CPU You Need is probably its own deal.
    • heat sink/fan. this is a sort of ribbed metal block you put on the CPU since CPUs get really hot and if you do not offload that heat the CPU can be damaged. despite how apocalyptic that sounds, there's an easy way to deal with this: i just use the one that came with the CPU.
    • hard drives. you're basically worried about capacity here. you can also choose between a traditional mechanical disk drive and a solid state drive. SSDs have no moving parts, and are thus faster, quieter, and generally less prone to breakdown, but they have less capacity and are more expensive, on the whole.
    • RAM. just buy some sticks that fit the motherboard. RAM is really easy to swap out and upgrade, even my dad can do it if compelled, so don't stress too much.
    • GPU. this is technically optional but let's not kid ourselves. like the CPU, i don't want to bother giving advice on picking one. unlike the CPU, you do not need to worry about heat sinks or fans, as the GPU board will have that all integrated.

    then you need peripherals (mouse, keyboard, monitor), which use very standardized interfaces - worst problem would probably be a VGA monitor for any new GPU, but VGA-DVI converters are real cheap.

  • For the record the thing I linked will do things like tell you if the parts you choose aren't compatible.
  • All I know is that there are some weird things that might come up like how apparently you can't have a 250 GB hard drive with WinXP or something.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    ^^^ Thanks for the advice!  i appreciate you writing that up, that's very helpful.

    i think my next step should be to figure out what parts i need using the Logical Increments and PCPartPicker sites.  But, probably when i'm more awake.  Doesn't seem like it should be too hard, like i said, i have a fairly clear idea what it is i want it to do.

    Cheers, everyone.
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022

    All I know is that there are some weird things that might come up like how apparently you can't have a 250 GB hard drive with WinXP or something.

    what is it with you and windows xp
  • kill living beings
    XP had NTFS which supports up to several terabytes, it should be fine. though, i mean, don't use XP.
  • All I know is that there are some weird things that might come up like how apparently you can't have a 250 GB hard drive with WinXP or something.

    what is it with you and windows xp
    I borked the 80 GB hard drive of an XP machine about six years ago.

    A couple years or so after that, I attempted to replace it with a 250 GB hard drive.

    It worked fine for a few days then suddenly stopped working.  I don't know why for sure but some web searching suggested that WinXP might not like drives that big for reasons I don't completely understand but I think has to do with signed integers or something like that.

    I would still like to fix that machine.  It's quite good otherwise.
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    It sounds like you're getting hard disk space confused with the fact that standard editions of Windows XP don't support more than 4 GB of RAM.

    Which, incidentally, is true of all 32-bit editions of Windows. That's why nobody uses 32-bit Windows on new computers. :P
  • kill living beings
    Here's an article on NTFS implementation. Specifically mentions the maximum volume sizes, you can see it could do several TB back in NT.

    anyway, i wanted to mention that one time my brother bought a GPU that didn't physically fit in his snazzy thin case, and it was funny
  • It sounds like you're getting hard disk space confused with the fact that standard editions of Windows XP don't support more than 4 GB of RAM.


    Which, incidentally, is true of all 32-bit editions of Windows. That's why nobody uses 32-bit Windows on new computers. :P
    That's what I figured, but I couldn't find any other explanation for why swapping in a 250 GB drive, installing XP (albeit 32-bit) on it, and running the machine didn't actually work.

    Well perhaps the motherboard was shot or something.  I dunno.
  • I am also interested in the things Tach mentioned, even though I don't know how soon we'll have enough money to get a new computer.
  • edited 2016-02-18 05:10:16
    I don't remember the details specifically but it'd show the manufacturer splash screen fine, then just stay on a black screen with a prompt cursor in the corner (and no text at all).  If I recall correctly, I couldn't boot into safe mode.  Basically, the entire operating system and drive were inaccessible.
  • edited 2016-02-18 05:12:50
    kill living beings
    oh, with booting from it it might be some kind of stupid BIOS problem. that definitely sounds like a pre-XP problem. mobo might not know how to deal.
    Jane said:

    I am also interested in the things Tach mentioned, even though I don't know how soon we'll have enough money to get a new computer.

    you can a few things pretty cheap used, or cannibalize it. the computer i'm typing this on has three hard drives because i just keep using old ones
  • Sadly we do not have anything from any of our old computers, sans a harddrive from my old laptop which I can't imagine works anymore.
  • kill living beings
    i mean you can also buy cheap. you can get peripherals from goodwill, and, well, near me there's a surplus place that sells cheap internal components, but that's probably rarer.

    and you can make a case out of rocks, and
  • oh, with booting from it it might be some kind of stupid BIOS problem. that definitely sounds like a pre-XP problem. mobo might not know how to deal.

    The most mysterious thing I can't figure out is why it worked the first several times, but didn't work after that.
  • i mean you can also buy cheap. you can get peripherals from goodwill, and, well, near me there's a surplus place that sells cheap internal components, but that's probably rarer.

    and you can make a case out of rocks, and

    haha you think there are thrift stores near me 
  • kill living beings

    ¯\_[ ˵ ☯ ڡ ☯ ˵ ]_/¯

  • well there are some but none sell electronics.
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    Weird quirk with my laptop and/or USB hard drive: About half the time, when I click the "Safety Remove Hardware" icon, Windows pops up a message telling me the drive is still in use. But then if I click it again immediately, it ejects it properly.
  • Usually if I get that error and there's nothing that's obviously in use, it still fails if I try it again immediately.  Resetting explorer sometimes fixes the issue.
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    The one thing from Windows 8 and later that I miss the most when I use Windows 7...has got to be the Quick Access menu when you right-click the Start button.

    In 8 and 10, you get a menu of Actually Useful Stuff like Control Panel, Command Prompt, etc.

    In 7 and earlier, you just get Taskbar and Start menu options.
  • Yeah, that seems pretty useful, though I've not used it much.
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    The "Messaging" Skype app that's built into the November version of Windows 10 is amazingly awful.

    Mind you, I'm not the kind of person who says that all Metro apps are awful by default. I don't have much use for them, and it was kinda dumb that you couldn't run them in windowed mode in Windows 8, but for the most part they seem decently designed and I might use them if I had a Windows tablet. But more importantly...most of them are functional.

    The Messaging app isn't. On my laptop, at least, it crashes constantly. Sometimes it crashes when I try to open a group chat. Sometimes it crashes when I try to send a message. Sometimes it crashes for no readily apparent reason. And what makes it especially irritating is that it crashes in the most obnoxious possible way: the window just disappears, with no error message or any acknowledgement of any kind that the app's stopped working.

    I opened it to look at it for this post and now it's failing in a new way...it's not crashing, but it won't load any group chats, or even the names of the chats.

    I'm not a heavy Skpye user. I'm only in a handful of group chats, and only one of those is really very active. But even for my relatively light use case, this app is useless. Thank god they're still making the proper Win32 Skype program.
  • not sure if that sounds better or worse than linux skype
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    Having used both: Worse. Definitely. Linux Skype at least runs for more than 2 minute without crashing.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    Well, i now have a bunch of computer components.  Not everything i need, still waiting for the GPU, SSD, monitor and keyboard.  And i'm thinking i should probably get hold of a surge protector before i do anything.

    i have looked up tutorials online and they seem . . . not *too* difficult, except i am not handy at all.  So i'm very nervous.  But also kind of excited!

    And i should sleep, but i am excited enough that i needed to post.
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    Sounds fun!

    What components did you pick, if you don't mind me asking?
  • Munch munch, chomp chomp...
    Well I'm excited for you!
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    ^^ AMD FX8320 CPU, AMD R9380X graphics card, Gigabyte 970A-UD3P motherboard, Seasonic S12-II 620 PSU

    Leaning pretty heavily on Logical Increments' recommendations because, yeah, i *am* that unconfident.  Ended up getting fairly expensive stuff (that's why it took me so long) because i figured, i want it to be good enough to run the games i want and hopefully last as well.  So this ended up not being a cost-effective purchase at all, but i'm hoping it'll pay off in the long run.

    ^ Thanks!
  • The first laptop I bought, I bought using component options from the manufacturer.  Ended up costing like US$2000.

    My dad did something similar a couple years later.

    We haven't spent more than $800 on a laptop since then.  A few were picked up at $299 or $349.
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