You are now reading everything I post in The Great & Powerful Trixie's voice.

TheMightyAnonym · 2012-04-20 04:14:32

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Rp56hb1a28w/Ty4GieFQl7I/AAAAAAAAdpU/_b7kPgnSEMI/s1600/the_great_and_powerful_trixie_approved_by_ambris-d4ivli5.png

Thank you all for your time, now excuse me while I perform feats beyond your puny imaginations.

Smugleaf · 2012-04-20 04:33:17

Do you want me to hate you?

No, I don't outright hate Trixie, but at least I dislike her.

Princess Alice · 2012-04-20 05:11:37

I'm never sure whether or not to buy into the interpretation that Trixie was a professional performer and the mane six were more or less heckling her...

Yarrun XIX · 2012-04-20 05:25:15

Princess Alice · 2012-04-20 05:26:42

i keep forgetting that video exists

TheMightyAnonym · 2012-04-20 05:31:49

^^^She probably goes around performing/challenging groups of ponies, and wins over the crowd by outdoing folk then gets paid.

What she didn't expect when coming to Ponyville, however, was... a group of ponies who are effectively all-powerful by merit of being protagonists. And a pair of idiots who assumed that a magician would actually go an kill a massive monster.

^^Finally! It's been too long since that got embedded :D

RainbowMatt · 2012-04-20 06:38:38

Zomg, Trixie is my bf's favorite pony. He has about a dozen desktops of her lol. Of course I have a similiar number of dashies ;3

Princess Alice · 2012-04-20 06:41:28

It's official, I now ship Rainbow Dash x Trixie, just because you and your boyfriend are cute. :P

Bunny · 2012-04-20 07:08:07

Those two would have so much Slap Slap Kissing going on it's not even funny.

RainbowMatt · 2012-04-20 07:30:18

*shy*

Gelzo · 2012-04-20 07:41:35

@CA: I think the interpretation is more or less valid, but that they had those reactions at all suggests to me that the cultural values of Equestria lead to interpretations of boasts on stage as literal rather than part of the act. So, they kind of were, but they were probably justified by Equestrian standards.

Princess Alice · 2012-04-22 02:27:18

See, that was pretty much what I thought. The idea that several otherwise intelligent ponies would misinterpret a stage show so easily didn't make much sense to me.

Gelzo · 2012-04-22 02:55:33

There're bound to be things that don't make much sense to us. Lauren said that they don't hammer logic too hard on the show. Hell, there even seem to be deliberate and subtle jokes about that. I'd argue the chase scene in horse-drawn carriages is an example.

In any case, what happens in the show is a part of that fictional world's reality. Only insane butthurt fans try to argue against something being canon if they dislike it. I see the application of logic to the show as a sort of game with no real correct answer or end goal. I figure it's all about trying to describe the rules of the world while minimizing differences from our reality (anthropomorphization is in play in many areas, after all) after accepting the premises of the show, the events within the show, trivia given by creators, and the conventions of the medium (Lack of full visual detail in cartoons is one such example. A lot of fans forget that many cartoons leave out the genitals of animals even when it's understood that they exist. Couple that with the fact that Faust mentioned they reproduce in the standard mammalian way, and the conclusion that they have junk is rather obvious).

It just about becomes a fool's errand when it comes to describing magic and Pinkie hax, as there's not much of a pattern that can be followed and there's not much in real life that can be used as a convincing parallel. I think the juxtaposition of that just makes the whole thing more amusing, personally. Not to mention that the target audience by some standards is young girls.

By the way, I realized a while back that rickshaws are basically the human equivalent of horse-drawn carriages for horses.

It looks like I got a little carried away for a minute, but hell, that's par for the course here.

Hm... That reminds me. I'm a few weeks behind on the episodes. I wasted a lot of time this weekend on video games.

TheMightyAnonym · 2012-04-22 03:05:29

From what I've seen, it's the discarding of logic and details that empowers fandoms the most.

Look at any large fandom. Homestuck, Touhou, Doctor Who, Lovecraft mythos, SCP foundation, and on and on. It's the LACK of cannon coupled with the human desire to explain the unknown that truly fuels a good story.

In other words, the most important element of a story isn't what is said, but what is left out. Perhaps that's why real life is so strange - no one is born with an instruction manual.

Gelzo · 2012-04-22 03:12:34

(Pst. "Cannon" =/= "canon".)

I can't speak for the others, but Homestuck doesn't have a lack of canon. There's a lot of detail in the work.

That comment about real life being "strange" is something I'd like to address, but I'd be ending up getting pretty philosophical for a while and I have other stuff I ought to get around to get around to get around to do.

TheMightyAnonym · 2012-04-22 03:19:02

Homestuck actually directly harnessed the desire to speculate, so the canon (there, see? I fixed my internal spell check thingy) is fanon.

And dangit, I like philosophy. :|

Anywho, to elaborate on "strange", I am referring to all the different and conflicting ideas that people have.It should be duly noted that my use of the word "strange" is an example of when I have a complicated idea in mind but somehow forget that I didn't explain it.

Gelzo · 2012-04-22 03:46:32

Oh. I had assumed that you meant that people generally view reality as something that is exceptional. Which I would agree with, but I also think that that perception is an odd one to have, given that since reality taken as a whole is all that exists, the only time when it breaks a rule we have for describing it is when we had it wrong in the first place.

I was going to go on about how the systems have for explaining reality is often based on what we recognize in daily life, especially within humanity. Hence why we anthropomorphize things that have very few things in common with humans, and things that exist outside what we have to learn and comprehend in order to survive in real life or in order to socialize with others can seem so unintuitive even when it turns out to be a pattern that accurately explains a very fundamental part of the universe. I figure this tendency to anthropomorphize is the sort of thing that spawned religion and legends with talking animals and beings. I think a number of people have a hard time conceiving of reality as not being driven by the forces of human personality, maybe that's partly motivated by experiencing so much of the important things in their life being controlled by themselves or other humans. We don't have a lot of fiction that takes places without any characters, after all. I also think that some people have a hard time conceiving of the universe as something without a personality, hence why people blame or credit a god or gods for things, and why some people find despair in a conception of the world where such things don't exist and leaves an "uncaring" universe- as if the proper way for reality to be is directed entirely by something that has a personal relationship with you.

Well, that's the gist of what I was going to say, anyway. So. There you are, I guess.

TheMightyAnonym · 2012-04-22 03:58:29

Pretty much.

I must say, the desire to anthropomorphize is fairly interesting in my own experience with Christianity, as descriptions of God tend to flip-flop between human and inhuman. The general consensus in theology is that "it's complicated", although that tends to go ignored and he's either portrayed as a human who just has super powers, or a Lovecraftian type thingamajig.

Uh-oh, serious and complicated discussion in heapers'.

Gelzo · 2012-04-22 04:01:49

srsposting in a shitpost forum is the ultimate shitposting.

"It's complicated" sounds a bit similar to "works in mysterious ways" to me. I remember Ricky Gervais in one of his routines saying the latter is the the theological equivalent to "Look over there!"

So you're Christian? I'm not sure I have been keeping track very well. I imagine it could help me as a general guideline for whether or not to completely disregard someone's opinions if they have relevance to epistemology. :3

TheMightyAnonym · 2012-04-22 04:09:06

More or less. As a Christian myself, I don't really understand why my brothers and sisters, so to speak, aren't themselves more interested in, you know, that all-knowing guy who we worship.

Memorizing a few select items from scripture is great and all, but what about the big part of the Bible called "the Old Testament" that nobody ever reads? Or Science, for that matter? I admit it isn't necessarily fun to look at uncomfortable facts and listen to folk who say our lives are effectively lies... but if we start hating truth and knowledge, doesn't that prove them right?

Considering that God is defined as "the Word", it seems like a very literal perversion of our Beliefs to say "Look over there!" when someone asks a serious question.

Gelzo · 2012-04-22 04:11:58

But haven't you heard? It's not God that is the word...

Viani · 2012-04-22 04:13:04

TheMightyAnonym · 2012-04-22 04:13:27

Whew, all that srsbsns wore me out!

It was like OTC all over again, but with less Savage Heathen declaring death to the police.

Viani · 2012-04-22 04:17:46

Savage Heathen reminded me of Alf.

Except he didn't tell em to CALL THE POLICE CALL THE POLICE

he was all like KILL THE POLICE

because they won't let him legally hurt the people who bully him on online games

so BAN HIM IN THE BUNGHOLIO

Gelzo · 2012-04-22 05:07:35

I had another post in me. I just wanted to do the funny thing first.

Anyway, yeah. It's not like I dislike you for being Christian, but I think you should be able to understand that from my perspective there's nothing convincing about Christianity when a more dispassionate and culturally neutral view is taken. I'm not going to be apologetic for using language that implies that it's an irrational belief system, as it very plainly is to me. So I'll expect people to not get offended and everything.

I think there's a pretty clear correlation between levels of education and atheism/agnosticism. Less developed countries and poorer communities tend to be more religious, too. I guess the issue of determining what causes what in these associations. The USA tends to be more religious than other developed nations, but it also tends to be more conservative and arguably behind the others in terms of quality of public education.

The whole science vs. religion thing, while an odd and crude way of framing the interaction, has at least some merit. Following the scientific method... well, "works" to put it succinctly. The knowledge that it's given us has led to countless modern comforts and powers. There isn't necessarily a conflict between believing in a god and being able to appreciate science as a source of truth. But there, you're having two separate standards for truth. There's simply no evidence for religion that works in a scientific context, and to be a respected scientist, there has to be significant evidence before you argue that something is almost certainly true. It's hard for me to imagine this division isn't often motivated in a major way by things such as social pressures, fears, and desires for emotional security.

I think the more you know about the world, the less convincing that a god becomes. It's easy to see how it's believable as a child or when you're living in isolation. The people who tell you that it's true are the same people you trust for so many other things, and the possibility that they're just carrying on a useless meme doesn't really come to mind. The people who wear their religious beliefs on their sleeves and resist understanding of the world and other peoples are I think the people who have not had the chance or ability to divide their standards for truth into two, so the only way for them to keep their faith is to make deliberate efforts to remain ignorant and deal with opposition not with debate but with avoidance or violence. I also think that there are people who deal with this conflict between the scientific and the spiritual in another way by reading philosophies that match what they want to believe, they adopt the trappings of higher education and make an effort to display an image of themselves participating in the same sphere without really getting at the heart of reasoning.

I think the people you describe have formed a conception of the world that they are comfortable with. Any further attainment of knowledge presents a risk that they'd be forced to exit that personal reality and enter one that is frightening and depressing and one that they don't share with their fellows, so there's motivation for them to resist any sort of education, even about their own religion. I remember going through the jump to that new perspective around middle school, and it wasn't comfortable, but it was worthwhile to me, and it certainly is possible to find satisfaction in life without that sort of belief system.

I guess I might come across as arrogant. But if you're in my shoes it looks like a huge portion of the world is saying that Earth is flat and killing each other over it. I think it's a little hard to try to form an opinion of that situation that doesn't come across as unfairly negative to the people who believe. To be honest, I used to be very bitter about the whole thing. It didn't help that I lived in a place that was primarily Christian and a number of my friends also were. As it happens, two of them have abandoned their religion in college.

Uh, sorry if there's not much... coherent continuity(?) in this post. I have a habit of jumping from one part of the post to the other as I write it. Whenever you see me make a long post, it's almost never me typing it from start to finish.

TheMightyAnonym · 2012-04-22 05:33:07

Bah, I don't consider you arrogant. I'd rather hear an honest atheist than a "Christian" who is, for all intents and purposes, a liar (which takes us back to that old OTC discussion about a spending time with a Pleasant person who holds view you disagree with, vs an unpleasant person with a view you don't agree with).

As it just so happens, Jesus alludes during the sermon on the mount that many Christians are going to find themselves uncomfortably close to Hell. It's almost like saying "Ten billion people will ignore this sentence", and then it happens.

In any case, my decision to stick with Christianity is just that - a choice. I didn't have some sort of amazing revelation, I don't have evidence of God's existence in a drawer in my dresser, and I've spent more than enough time at LessWrong to catch all the cliches. I don't know why I'm still on the path, but as it stands I can reasonably trust what little I do know. If anything, my faith can be reduced to "why not?".

Intolerance a reason why not? Doesn't seem like it; I respect folk like Naney and see no need or reason consider them less than I am. Inability to think logically? It would be presumptuous to call myself logical, but I'm certainly aware of the traps my brethren (and people in general) fall into.

So basically, I threw my hands up in frustration, picked a side, and now continue to delve head-first in debate.

And indeed, I'm aware of the education gap; I can name at least 5 sources of that, and all of them are pretty obvious and depressing. :/

In a little test at my college to see how accurate this list of "core American values" was, we all chose some and the professor told us to sit down if he listed one of ours. As I found out, Knowledge and Wisdom aren't on the list (and only two other people kept standing). :(

Gelzo · 2012-04-22 05:51:59

Yeah, I don't doubt that there are very intelligent and logical Christians. Like I said, I think people who manage to participate in educated circles and remain religious often divide their standards for belief into spiritual and non-spiritual. Hence why I think there are many modern Christians who can dismiss superstition as absurd without any irony.

I do think it's strange to "decide" on a belief. How things are from my perspective, I'm not really satisfied with the kind of person I am unless I feel prepared to deal with truth and don't deny something on the basis of it being uncomfortable. It might be the case that some truth of reality I find out in the future will be severely depressing, but whether I know it or not doesn't change the truth of it. And if it really is the kind of thing that can change my emotional state that badly, it might be something that could motivate me to change my priorities in an important way.

TheMightyAnonym · 2012-04-22 06:12:55

I do a lot of strange things, often if only because I highly value knowledge and consider interesting things worth doing. That said, I do have a method to my madness, but it's a little more extensive than 5 walls of text; perhaps it would be a worthy exercise to reduce it to a single sentence.

It would be rather exhausting to flip flop beliefs, silly to say "mysterious ways...", and less than logical to believe something... yet hold it to a separate standard for "spiritual things". As such, I can quite confidently say: "I don't know, but I'll think about it eventually" after encountering anything of significance.

And think about it I do. I could spend hours puzzling things out, but there's always a reasonable answer if I keep at it long enough. Quite the fun and rewarding activity, I believe. I even try to reason the idea from different angles. If you were at IJBM II when I screwed around with the Princess Apricot puppet, notice that the whole point was to get as in-character as possible and deconstruct my own points of view.

Long story short: Think of me as Utilitarian, except instead of maximizing a good result, I maximize knowledge.

Wow, I forgot how fascinating these sorts of discussions were. And now it's 6 am *yawn*.

Gelzo · 2012-04-22 06:26:21

Yeah, I think the Utilitarian philosophy matches mine, from what I've heard of it. I just think that knowledge tends to result in good things.

I used to think that religion was a net negative in almost all areas. It certainly shouldn't be given credence in as many circles as it is, IMO. But, maybe it can possibly be useful for certain sections of the population to be religious, such as the people with demoralizing yet necessary jobs, or maybe for individuals who might despair completely if their belief systems change.

I still think that as a general rule, religion should be discouraged. I just think that my view of the interaction of happiness and reasoning sees it as a more complicated issue than before.

Salix Babylonika · 2012-04-22 11:43:44

uh. Just out of curiosity how did this thread go from #horsejokes to a discussion on religion?

._.

Gelzo · 2012-04-22 11:55:05

Horsing around -> interpreting fictional realities -> interpreting reality.

Obā-san · 2012-04-22 11:58:44

I don't read things in character's voices.

Gelzo · 2012-04-22 12:00:22

The one prank where they get you to read things in Farnsworth's voice used to work pretty well on me.

Unknown · 2012-04-22 13:39:46

The user and all related content has been deleted.

TheMightyAnonym · 2012-04-22 16:18:37

"I still think that as a general rule, religion should be discouraged."

Ironically, I think there would be more genuine Christians if such were the case. It's hard to break out of one's shell after being indoctrinated, and I think kids who are told that they are saved before actually reaching the decision are placed in a sort of trap (the one that encourages people to throw their children on the street for being gay, and pretend it's God's work). Hmmmmmm: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew 7:21-23&version=NIV

I went on like that for quite a while, until my family and I were getting baptized. Each of us had to write a few words on when we accepted Christ... when I realized that I had never ACTUALLY done so. This sort of thing had been mentioned before by my pastor, saying that "Lukewarm" Christianity is dangerous.

Needless to say, I wizened up pretty quick after that little epiphany.

^I should certainly hope so, although I'm a long way away from actually knowing everything that I stand for. In fact, my belief is more about what I *don't* know than what I do know. See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_Men_and_the_Elephant

You are now reading everything I post in The Great & Powerful Trixie's voice.

Comments

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories