Death By Glamour is not as good as Metal Crusher, musically

glennmagusharvey

Toby Fox had the chance to make a glorified remix of Metal Crusher but he barely even took advantage of that opportunity.

glennmagusharvey

You know the part of DBG that sounds like MC?

That is the best part of DBG, but it shouldn't just have been the same phrase restated twice, but instead it should have at least been a remix of the full sentence in MC that it is drawn from.

glennmagusharvey

MC chords:
E
D#
A/C#, D#
G#m
E
D#M7
A/C#
G#/D#, D#

that phrase

all it turned into was an unsatisfying:
C
B
BbM7, B
Em
which is repeated three more times, without doing anything

glennmagusharvey

it's this key moment that MC is better than DBG at

the rest of the track is a little ehh, but this key moment is what makes MC worth it

glennmagusharvey

also this is the part that sounds like virt

Yarrun XIX

Counterpoint: There are no good Metal Crusher remixes on youtube

TitleName

Proof that Glenn is wrong. :v

Death by Glamour is better. Trufax

Sredni Vashtar

I could dig up the flowchart and show you what the other parts of "Death By Glamour" connect to in the soundtrack and how that furthers the game's narrative and themes and makes sense in the context of what it's being played over, buuuuuut.

glennmagusharvey

Sredni Vashtar said:

I could dig up the flowchart and show you what the other parts of "Death By Glamour" connect to in the soundtrack and how that furthers the game's narrative and themes and makes sense in the context of what it's being played over, buuuuuut.

i wish people did this for other game soundtracks

there's some motivic material to work with in Earthbound itself for example

also some particularly motif-rich games like ff6

Sredni Vashtar

Literally every musical motif in Undertale is connected in some fashion. The entire soundtrack can be seen as a multitude of variations on a fairly small number of themes, many of which flow directly into one another.

glennmagusharvey

pretty sure undertale isn't the first game to have done this

just that other such games have gotten less attention, sadly

Sredni Vashtar

Probably not, but experiencing the narrative and making the different connections as the story unfolds or in retrospect is part of what makes it a particularly brilliant example of the concept. That's why I keep telling you to play it, or at the very least watch a full Let's Play of it: The music is part of the story and the story is part of the music and you can't get the most out of both without experiencing them both.

Yarrun XIX

Wait, has glenn not even played Undertale yet?

Dude, you have no right throwing DBG under the bus if you haven't watched it in context.

What works for Mettaton does not work for Mettaton EX

Sredni Vashtar

EXACTLY.

glennmagusharvey

Yarrun XIX said:

Wait, has glenn not even played Undertale yet?

Dude, you have no right throwing DBG under the bus if you haven't watched it in context.

What works for Mettaton does not work for Mettaton EX

no i DO have a right

damnit

i was actually just commenting about this in a PM to someone earlier, right after i wrote this thread up

i said that someone's gonna say "you can't have an opinion on this, because you haven't played the game"

well no i don't care that i haven't played the game i am going to hold this opinion because this is my opinion

you're welcome to disagree with it and think it is trash

but it is still my opinion and my honest opinion and i feel this way
and i don't need the world telling me what my opinions should be about creative works

glennmagusharvey

and it is entirely okay if i have a non-canon interpretation of material from some other context

it is entirely okay that i interpret liszt's dante sonata as a journey of romance for example

it is ENTIRELY OKAY AND ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE CAN SHOVE IT

Crystal

That's a pretty big reaction to "It's better in context (and if you like it the soundtrack so much I am surprised you haven't checked out the game)." Just, like, that's what their comments boiled down to.

Klinotaxis

it's incidental music. as someone who listens to a lot of soundtracks out of context, i understand how you feel, but at the same time, the point of the music is not to be good in isolation. your opinion is kind of irrelevant to almost everybody who knows the songs.

glennmagusharvey

Klinotaxis said:

it's incidental music. as someone who listens to a lot of soundtracks out of context, i understand how you feel, but at the same time, the point of the music is not to be good in isolation. your opinion is kind of irrelevant to almost everybody who knows the songs.

there is no single "point" of music

and honestly at this point i've stopped caring that it's irrelevant to other people

it is my opinion and that's how i feel about it

Sredni Vashtar

Crystal said:

That's a pretty big reaction to "It's better in context (and if you like it the soundtrack so much I am surprised you haven't checked out the game)." Just, like, that's what their comments boiled down to.

Yes.

I have no problem with "Metal Crusher" and I appreciate the harmonic sophistication, but "Death By Glamour" gains a lot of resonance with proper context that you are missing out on, I feel. I'm not making a value judgement on your tastes, just pointing out that different ideas work better in different contexts, musically.

Klinotaxis

there's no single point which is why i phrased it in terms of people reading your opinion instead. which you don't care about, so you're just bugging us for no reason. again.

glennmagusharvey

there is nothing wrong with having odd opinions on media and i declare here that everyone is entitled to their own interpretations

glennmagusharvey

glennmagusharvey said:

there is nothing wrong with having odd opinions on media and i declare here that everyone is entitled to their own interpretations

because they are

and if you think they are wrong then YOU ARE WRONG angryface.jpg

Yarrun XIX

Fun Fact: I actually like Metal Crusher more than DBG.

I just feel like there's no point in throwing DBG under the bus for the sake of Metal Crusher. They were designed for different purposes.

I also object to Metal Crusher's greater harmonic complexity making it inherently better. DBG is simpler because it's pop, not because it's a lesser iteration of music

Sredni Vashtar

Same, actually, on all counts.

Anonus

when people talk about mettaton themes they always gloss over this one:

glennmagusharvey

I just felt disappointed when I first heard DBG.

It's not bad, just that it didn't strike my fancy enough for something that I was hoping would be MC but more glorious, so I felt let down.

And yeah I know DBG includes other motifs.

Sredni Vashtar

Anonus said:

when people talk about mettaton themes they always gloss over this one:

The quiz theme! :D

glennmagusharvey

someone should just take those two phrases from Metal Crusher and remix them in the style of Death By Glamour's quote of that bit, replacing the existing quote (technically twice in a row so the end of the first iteration may have to be changed a bit to make it accommodate looping back onto itself)



look i swear i am not reviving this thread to revive drama; I was listening to some Undertale music yesterday and this thought occurred to me again