words that have a negative meaning but are used positively for no real reason

glennmagusharvey · 2016-05-22 14:13:00

"badass"
"based" (as derived from "debased" or the adjective "base")
"dank"
"[the] shit"
"sick" (thanks https://heapershangout.com/index.php?p=/discussion/comment/799846/#Comment_799846 )
"wicked"

glennmagusharvey · 2016-05-22 14:13:44

oh, pre-emptive firing of shots: I said real reason.

#disrespectpossiblyimplied #butenoughtalk #haveatyou danceofillusions.mp3 #dramaticlightning

Fossilmaiden · 2016-05-22 14:15:10

...Based???

glennmagusharvey · 2016-05-22 14:16:49

Fossilmaiden said:
...Based???

i clarified -- as derived from "debased"

MadassAlex · 2016-05-22 14:31:31

Sick.

Tachyon · 2016-05-22 15:33:12

'based' isn't derived from 'debased', it's derived from 'freebase'

and the positive use is afaik because of Lil B

Obā-san · 2016-05-22 15:38:22

this thread is embarrassing

Odradek · 2016-05-22 15:40:56

Today is Tomorrow said:
this thread is embarrassing

Imipolex G · 2016-05-22 15:55:13

there is nothing wrong with being dank

Salix Babylonika · 2016-05-22 16:03:25

this is not nearly as funny as you think it is

Crystal · 2016-05-22 16:24:38

Alduin · 2016-05-22 16:31:47

OK what's wrong with this thread and why are you all taking GMH to task for it?

Klinotaxis · 2016-05-22 17:05:49

Even if "based" was derived from "debased", "de" is a negative prefix, so of course removing it would make it a positive thing.

Alduin said:
OK what's wrong with this thread and why are you all taking GMH to task for it?

complaining about how people use words based on etymology is annoying and pointless, and it isn't how language works

plus most of the time you do it you get the etymology wrong. like this.

Crystal · 2016-05-22 17:33:46

The umpteenth prescriptivist thread in this vein, too. If it's a joke, my bad, but the joke was indistinguishable from the real thing on my end.

Sredni Vashtar · 2016-05-22 17:57:49

glennmagusharvey said:
"badass"

Reference to "bad" in the sense of "powerful and dangerous, not to be tarried with" with "ass" as an affix or suffix intensifier, itself derived from its semantic use as a representative of the whole body: "Get your ass outta here."

glennmagusharvey said:
"based" (as derived from "debased" or the adjective "base")

Also means "grounded," thus "real, down-to-earth." Words have more than one meaning.

glennmagusharvey said:
"dank"

Reference to the fact that marijuana with higher concentrations of its active ingredients such as THC and cannabinoids tends to have a more potent smell, which may be described as such. Thus applied to anything of high potency or self-evident positive qualities.

glennmagusharvey said:
"[the] shit"

The definitive qualifier here is the key: "Shit" is often used as an ironically deprecatory synonym for "stuff" or "things," which by singling something out indicates something definitive or significant.

glennmagusharvey said:
"sick"

Ironic reversal taken from subcultures wherein the inventively grotesque and outrageous is valued (punk, etc.) and put at a premium over the conventionally "good." See also below.

glennmagusharvey said:
"wicked"

A mixture of the above with the first, where in fearsomeness is extended to a sense of awe and respect. Arguably evolved out of its dialectal use as an intensifying adverb.

Don't go toe to toe with me on slang, not even as a dumb joke.

Crystal · 2016-05-22 18:01:40

That based badass post was wicked-dank my sick friend. Like, shit.

I was half-tempted to make a similar post but why bother, I thought.

Klinotaxis · 2016-05-22 18:02:37

ur a wicked hot shit

Sredni Vashtar · 2016-05-22 18:05:06

Thanks, bruv.

Salix Babylonika · 2016-05-22 18:07:58

Sredni Vashtar · 2016-05-22 18:20:16

...unfortunately, I don't speak patwa.

Salix Babylonika · 2016-05-22 18:50:42

tbh I don't really know why I posted that.

Imipolex G · 2016-05-22 18:52:14

Sredni Vashtar said:

glennmagusharvey said:
"badass"
Reference to "bad" in the sense of "powerful and dangerous, not to be tarried with" with "ass" as an affix or suffix intensifier, itself derived from its semantic use as a representative of the whole body: "Get your ass outta here."
glennmagusharvey said:
"based" (as derived from "debased" or the adjective "base")
Also means "grounded," thus "real, down-to-earth." Words have more than one meaning.
glennmagusharvey said:
"dank"
Reference to the fact that marijuana with higher concentrations of its active ingredients such as THC and cannabinoids tends to have a more potent smell, which may be described as such. Thus applied to anything of high potency or self-evident positive qualities.
glennmagusharvey said:
"[the] shit"
The definitive qualifier here is the key: "Shit" is often used as an ironically deprecatory synonym for "stuff" or "things," which by singling something out indicates something definitive or significant.
glennmagusharvey said:
"sick"
Ironic reversal taken from subcultures wherein the inventively grotesque and outrageous is valued (punk, etc.) and put at a premium over the conventionally "good." See also below.
glennmagusharvey said:
"wicked"
A mixture of the above with the first, where in fearsomeness is extended to a sense of awe and respect. Arguably evolved out of its dialectal use as an intensifying adverb.

Don't go toe to toe with me on slang, not even as a dumb joke.

very informative, thanks.

glennmagusharvey · 2016-05-23 03:33:41

Jane said:
this is not nearly as funny as you think it is

it's not really meant to be funny

it's meant to be a throwaway expression of opinion, specifically one that i wouldn't say anywhere else because it ends up with me espousing a certain viewpoint that some people fundamentally disagree with or something like that

being shitposting just means i feel more latitude to say things that would normally be considered stupid

Klinotaxis said:
complaining about how people use words based on etymology is annoying and pointless, and it isn't how language works

yeah, tell that to the fifty million other people who opine these things on the internet and get +likes and retweets and such

Klinotaxis said:
plus most of the time you do it you get the etymology wrong. like this.

actually for "based" i am pretty much specifically referring to the lil b usage

Sredni Vashtar said:

glennmagusharvey said:
"sick"
Ironic reversal taken from subcultures wherein the inventively grotesque and outrageous is valued (punk, etc.) and put at a premium over the conventionally "good." See also below.
glennmagusharvey said:
"wicked"
A mixture of the above with the first, where in fearsomeness is extended to a sense of awe and respect. Arguably evolved out of its dialectal use as an intensifying adverb.

tbh i am pretty much fundamentally opining against the whole notion of a might-based social order where fearsomeness is considered a virtue worthy of respect and thus socially desirable

after all this is the same type of thinking that leads to "that person can get away with more obnoxious stuff than i can get away with, so that person is in a more socially desirable position"

Sredni Vashtar said:
Don't go toe to toe with me on slang, not even as a dumb joke.

WELL I WILL BECAUSE I DEFY YOUR STATEMENT FOR THE HELL OF DEFYING IT

glennmagusharvey · 2016-05-23 03:42:05

Crystal said:
The umpteenth prescriptivist thread in this vein, too. If it's a joke, my bad, but the joke was indistinguishable from the real thing on my end.

I know what it means to be prescriptivist.

It's not really a joke. The second post was a joke. The first one was non-joke opinion shitposting.

Yes, I'm being prescriptivist by saying what I think the world should be like.

I'm not saying that dictionaries shouldn't include these definitions. They should, because the point of dictionaries is to be descriptivist toward providing information about how people use words, rather than saying what they should or shouldn't be used for.

Rather, I am indeed saying that people ought to stop using these words these ways. This is my opinion.

Yeah, I've got strong opinions on things, who'd have thunk. Not like other people here don't have strong opinions on various other things.

Hexartes · 2016-05-23 03:56:27

Maybe I'm missing some broader context but

Is it me or are we really hard on Glenn, like come on this thread is almost painful for me to read

Tachyon · 2016-05-23 03:57:04

glennmagusharvey said:
actually for "based" i am pretty much specifically referring to the lil b usage

then you're mistaken, because Lil B himself has specifically said that it came from when people used to call him a basehead, and he decided to spin it around into a positive

glennmagusharvey · 2016-05-23 03:58:43

honestly people saying that things should or should not be such-and-such is a dime a dozen on the internet, even here at HH

why the fuck is it that when i say it people treat it like i've offended some sort of sacred cow

tempting to go hunt down more sacred cows just because it annoys me how this stuff is treated as a sacred cow

Princess Alice · 2016-05-23 03:58:58

glennmagusharvey said:
being shitposting just means i feel more latitude to say things that would normally be considered stupid

How many times do we have to explain that it doesn't work that way?

glennmagusharvey · 2016-05-23 03:59:35

Tachyon said:

glennmagusharvey said:
actually for "based" i am pretty much specifically referring to the lil b usage

then you're mistaken, because Lil B himself has specifically said that it came from when people used to call him a basehead, and he decided to spin it around into a positive

yeah, i know, and it's actually funny since on one hand i think that what he did is admirable, but on the other hand one of the eventual social results of it is pretty obnoxious

Tachyon · 2016-05-23 03:59:58

i don't mean to be hard on Glenn but like

telling people how to use language while not even bothering to find out why they use the words they use just seems, well, really quite condescending

sorry

glennmagusharvey · 2016-05-23 04:00:09

CentralAvenue said:

glennmagusharvey said:
being shitposting just means i feel more latitude to say things that would normally be considered stupid
How many times do we have to explain that it doesn't work that way?

it's stupid speech either way

glennmagusharvey · 2016-05-23 04:02:13

Tachyon said:
i don't mean to be hard on Glenn but like

telling people how to use language while not even bothering to find out why they use the words they use just seems, well, really quite condescending

sorry

well i'm sorry, but people have opinions on creative works before reading/listening to/watching them, people have opinions on political issues and candidates before researching them, people have opinions on brands of products before personally coming in contact with them

this is quite normal human behavior, having opinions on things that one is not familiar with

should there really be a gag order on expressing those opinions?

Tachyon · 2016-05-23 04:02:29

tbh this is probably just the wrong crowd

like you said there are sites where this would have gotten you a ton of likes/upvotes/"that's so right!" replies

glennmagusharvey · 2016-05-23 04:04:32

as for language specifically maybe it's because i'm really used to the idea of language being a means to an end, the end of communicating an idea or producing a certain desired result (cognitive and/or emotional) in the audience, so to me the point of word choice is to serve those objectives, rather than self-expression as its own objective

and just as you said, this might be the wrong crowd, since self-expression is sorta a big theme on HH

Imipolex G · 2016-05-23 04:05:13

glennmagusharvey said:
honestly people saying that things should or should not be such-and-such is a dime a dozen on the internet, even here at HH

why the fuck is it that when i say it people treat it like i've offended some sort of sacred cow

tempting to go hunt down more sacred cows just because it annoys me how this stuff is treated as a sacred cow

as a sacred cow myself, I am a tad alarmed

glennmagusharvey · 2016-05-23 04:06:05

Imipolex G said:

glennmagusharvey said:
honestly people saying that things should or should not be such-and-such is a dime a dozen on the internet, even here at HH

why the fuck is it that when i say it people treat it like i've offended some sort of sacred cow

tempting to go hunt down more sacred cows just because it annoys me how this stuff is treated as a sacred cow
as a sacred cow myself, I am a tad alarmed

but you are a cool sacred cow so i will leave you unharmed

except maybe your taste for large udders

Tachyon · 2016-05-23 04:06:27

glennmagusharvey said:

Tachyon said:
i don't mean to be hard on Glenn but like

telling people how to use language while not even bothering to find out why they use the words they use just seems, well, really quite condescending

sorry
well i'm sorry, but people have opinions on creative works before reading/listening to/watching them, people have opinions on political issues and candidates before researching them, people have opinions on brands of products before personally coming in contact with them

this is quite normal human behavior, having opinions on things that one is not familiar with

should there really be a gag order on expressing those opinions?

well i guess not but if you express opinions from a position of ignorance, you'd kind of expect corrections and critical responses, no?

that and it really doesn't take much time or effort to google a piece of slang, it's not even a time investment like asking you to watch a TV show

glennmagusharvey · 2016-05-23 04:07:35

glennmagusharvey said:
as for language specifically maybe it's because i'm really used to the idea of language being a means to an end, the end of communicating an idea or producing a certain desired result (cognitive and/or emotional) in the audience, so to me the point of word choice is to serve those objectives, rather than self-expression as its own objective

and just as you said, this might be the wrong crowd, since self-expression is sorta a big theme on HH

then again it is arguably self-expression in terms of acknowledging those opinions of mine that i do feel strongly about even when i don't have a valid "basis" for them

of course, one could reply, "does anyone actually give a fuck about you disliking utena because you dislike its art style?"

and i guess i would not have an answer other than "not really"

Tachyon · 2016-05-23 04:08:24

also like, saying something is disrespectful or flamebait doesn't negate the fact that it's disrespectful or flamebait so like, seems to me you got the responses you were expecting?

Tachyon · 2016-05-23 04:10:57

disliking the art style of a cartoon is an aesthetic judgment, and can't really be considered condescending or rude in the same way, much less 'invalid'

idk it just seemed like you set out to be disrespectful and now you're upset that people responded less than positively to this?

glennmagusharvey · 2016-05-23 04:13:20

Tachyon said:

glennmagusharvey said:

Tachyon said:
i don't mean to be hard on Glenn but like

telling people how to use language while not even bothering to find out why they use the words they use just seems, well, really quite condescending

sorry
well i'm sorry, but people have opinions on creative works before reading/listening to/watching them, people have opinions on political issues and candidates before researching them, people have opinions on brands of products before personally coming in contact with them

this is quite normal human behavior, having opinions on things that one is not familiar with

should there really be a gag order on expressing those opinions?
well i guess not but if you express opinions from a position of ignorance, you'd kind of expect corrections and critical responses, no?

that and it really doesn't take much time or effort to google a piece of slang, it's not even a time investment like asking you to watch a TV show

okay, so what would happen if i made a thread saying "utena sucks because its art style sucks"?

i'd expect people to tell me no, you can't say that about utena, you should really go watch the show, it's got a worthy story and well-written characters or stuff like that

well, then again utena is a pretty well-regarded show, so how about this: "SAO sucks because it's wish-fulfillmenty shit"?

if i said that, people would likely agree with me, and possibly say that i'm stating the obvious -- but most likely, no complaints that i've not watched the show and am misjudging it.

i've watched just one episode of each; main difference is that the utena opinion is something i formed on my own while the SAO opinion is one that i formed based on aggregating what other people have said

glennmagusharvey · 2016-05-23 04:13:56

Tachyon said:
also like, saying something is disrespectful or flamebait doesn't negate the fact that it's disrespectful or flamebait so like, seems to me you got the responses you were expecting?

tbh what i was really wishing for was an argument, not facepalming and walking away

Obā-san · 2016-05-23 04:17:02

why on gods green earth would anyone want to have this argument on this website

why

glennmagusharvey · 2016-05-23 04:18:06

Today is Tomorrow said:
why on gods green earth would anyone want to have this argument on this website

why

a catharsis of silly and inconsequentiality

Crystal · 2016-05-23 04:18:25

glennmagusharvey said:
"utena sucks because its art style sucks"

I think it is pretty good for what it is, but I can also, quite easily, see how it's not everyone's cup of tea. So I say more power to those people, don't watch what you can't tolerate on a visual level because that's silly... but it would certainly be, like, objectively worse for what it tries to be if it instead tries to be like JJBA: Phantom Blood, I think.

glennmagusharvey · 2016-05-23 04:19:07

Crystal said:

glennmagusharvey said:
"utena sucks because its art style sucks"
I think it is pretty good for what it is, but I can also, quite easily, see how it's not everyone's cup of tea. So I say more power to those people, don't watch what you can't tolerate on a visual level because that's silly... but it would certainly be, like, objectively worse for what it tries to be if it instead tries to be like JJBA: Phantom Blood, I think.

incidentally i also dislike jjba's art style lol

Tachyon · 2016-05-23 04:23:11

well we got a thoughtful Sredni post out of it, so in retrospect this was a net positive

but if you want a good argument an insulting wonderpost isn't a great starting point, obviously

'Utena sucks because its art style sucks' strikes me as a bit dismissive, since to me that seems like zeroing in on a relatively superficial aspect of the show as though that condemns the whole of it; if i were a fan i'd feel indignant. Your SAO example sounds more like an opinion formed by actually watching the series, so perhaps more justified in making pronouncements of suckitude, but really, if you say any show sucks then you can expect fans of the series, if present, to express annoyance and dissenting views.

OTOH, i wouldn't expect 'i don't want to watch Utena because i can't get past how much i dislike the art' to be a controversial statement, because there's no presumption being made about the quality of the work overall, only the art itself

Crystal · 2016-05-23 04:27:30

I'm personally sympathetic to such zeroing in, even if I understand your reasoning. Just as a default, and when I remember how, for example, I've actively put off Home Movies because it's unpleasant for me to look at. And if those one or two issues stay singularly focused, then I'm more inclined to give, for lack of a better term (I'm kind of tired), BOFD.

glennmagusharvey · 2016-05-23 04:33:30

@Tachyon i meant "argument" as in "chaotic, dramatic shouting match" rather than "reasoned discussion of a disagreement", lol

but yeah, Sredni's post is the sort of thing that i always try to write up when i'm actually taking a thread seriously

i just do that all the damn time and maybe i've just gotten kinda sick of it
so it's like for example i can explain to people on the steam forums, steam doesn't serve third-party csgo betting sites, a 7-day ban in competitive csgo is for a fourth disconnect, the general steam forums are not the proper place to discuss csgo issues, we can't undo vac bans, we can't help you get your $100 virtual knife back that you lost in a middleman scam, etc. etc. etc.
meanwhile in my head i'm singing "fuck csgo fuck csgo fuck csgo fuck" in a comedically mocking way to the tune of the martini rag
so this thread is the equivalent of me actually posting that mocking singing and thereby directly expressing that displeasure

glennmagusharvey · 2016-05-23 04:34:14

@Crystal i'm too tired to think straight right now so i interpreted "BOFD" as "bag of fucking ducks" lol

(but i know what you mean)

Tachyon · 2016-05-23 04:36:18

Crystal said:
I'm personally sympathetic to such zeroing in, even if I understand your reasoning. Just as a default, and when I remember how, for example, I've actively put off Home Movies because it's unpleasant for me to look at. And if those one or two issues stay singularly focused, then I'm more inclined to give, for lack of a better term (I'm kind of tired), BOFD.

Well, true, i'm kind of touchy about when stuff i like gets dismissed in a way that seems offhandedly, i know not everyone is the same.

(Though it's not the zeroing in i'd object to, per se, only that 'it sucks' reads to me like a pronouncement on overall quality which i don't feel you're in a position to make if you haven't actually watched it.)

words that have a negative meaning but are used positively for no real reason

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