Life Ain't Easy

Viani · 2013-02-27 02:54:33

Or at least being human ain't.

Am I doing good? Am I doing bad? There's no way to truly measure that. Even if humanity's science progresses into the stars, and gives us a million more options than we ever had, would we ever become anything beyond human?

Is there more than just the physical, material, biological us?

If I spend my entire life playing video games until I deteriorate from cancer and viruses, or my heart violently stops beating, will I be able to look back on my life after death?

So many more limits to test.

Salix Babylonika · 2013-02-27 03:11:20

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-02-27 03:44:32

Well, we can be happy.

Tachyon · 2013-02-27 03:46:19

but Sredni

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-02-27 03:55:10

Even the vast majority of hardcore anti-natalists and misanthropes are not so fatuous as to deny that one cannot be happy, even if that happiness is merely fleeting and insubstantial. Only mental illness can completely deny an individual of happiness, and even then there are better days just as there are worse ones. Ultimately, the only way to truly reject the miseries of this world and escape the all-consuming existential pit is to try to embrace what happiness one can find and try to spread that happiness to others in some form.

Tachyon · 2013-02-27 04:01:17

i suppose you're familiar with the 'Benatar asymmetry' argument? However, i wasn't serious. i just remembered that image existed and it amused me.

But yes, of course we can be happy, some of the time.

Viani · 2013-02-27 04:02:20

You're right. The things I have in life are good. I should enjoy them.

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-02-27 04:20:06

Benetar's proposal is interesting, but an asymmetry between pleasure and pain that makes experiencing neither preferable (in abstract terms) to experiencing both does not eliminate the fact that we feel happiness and that we are alive. Given that we have been born into lemons, we must make each other lemonade. The only other option is death, which is an incredibly problematic solution in and of itself: Most people, whether they suffer more than they are happy, are hardwired to prefer being alive to the idea of not. Again, all but the most extreme and depraved individuals would consider the refusal to accommodate this in others—namely, murder on whatever scale—incredibly inhumane and deeply immoral.

To put it more succinctly: The only real solution to the problem is to make everyone as happy as possible on as reasonable terms as possible. This is all that we can do.

Viani · 2013-02-27 04:24:01

You people and your philoso bobble bibbidy bop.

Isn't there something like painful pleasure? Like physically agonizing mental happiness?

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-02-27 04:27:57

Yes. Masochism and forms of algolagnia (pathological pain-pleasure association) are both based around that principle, as are certain obsessions and manias. The first is pretty harmless for the most part, but the rest are definitely in the realm of the unwell.

When I speak of pain or suffering in philosophy, I mean it a lot more abstractly. Pain of one kind does not require pain of the other.

Tachyon · 2013-02-27 04:28:24

i don't know. i don't think i've ever felt that. If i were Naney this would be an appropriate place for a BDSM joke i guess.

Sredni, three posts up, no argument from me. i can't say i've been especially happy of late, but i'm not an antinatalist. Still, if there's something more to life than just making the most of what we have, well, i should like to know what it is. But sharing happiness is good.

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-02-27 04:42:43

I think that you can be an anti-natalist and still accept the happiness of others as your primary priority. Again, if life is more trouble than it's worth but people insist on living (as they have every right to), then it is better for them to be (even marginally) happier than not. Ligotti said something to that effect when talking about his political ideals—he's a fairly fervent socialist with a remarkable loathing for American conservatism, which makes for an interesting contrast with some of the more noxious elements.

But that's another topic entirely. What I'm saying is that even if nothing matters—and I don't think that I will ever be able to really prove or disprove the assertion—I can at least be so courteous as make others happy and try to be happy with myself and how I live my life.

As for severe physical pain, I doubt that most masochists would ever take it that far. Again, there is a difference between a kink and a true fetish, and between a fetish and a deleterious fixation.

Odradek · 2013-02-27 14:50:18

Viani said:
Am I doing good? Am I doing bad? There's no way to truly measure that. Even if humanity's science progresses into the stars, and gives us a million more options than we ever had, would we ever become anything beyond human?

Let me tell you about the eventual death of the manifest image at the hands of neuroscience.

Corporal Forsythe · 2013-02-27 14:56:23

In Chinese, the measure word for money is 'kuai': 快

the word for happiness in Chinese is 'kuaile': 快了

In China, money can't buy happiness. It is happiness.

Imipolex G · 2013-02-27 15:02:11

Note to self: stay away from China

Tre · 2013-02-27 16:25:18

Corporal Forsythe said:
In Chinese, the measure word for money is 'kuai': 快

the word for happiness in Chinese is 'kuaile': 快了

In China, money can't buy happiness. It is happiness.

That's actually kind of frightening as hell. Oy.

SF_Sorrow · 2013-02-27 16:42:52

lol, much as I can enjoy snark about my ethnic origins, that is not true.

First, it's 块, not 快 (which just means "to be gratified").

Secondly, it's 快乐.

You got the pinyin right, but not the right characters.

Obā-san · 2013-02-27 16:43:48

oh snop

Corporal Forsythe · 2013-02-27 16:45:36

SF_Sorrow said:
lol, much as I can enjoy snark about my ethnic origins, that is not true.

First, it's 块, not 快 (which just means "to be gratified").

Secondly, it's 快乐.

You got the pinyin right, but not the right characters.

Oh damn, you're right

I stand corrected

Corporal Forsythe · 2013-02-27 16:48:24

Also, how fluent are you in Chinese? I'm on my second year of the language and would just love to know if you can proofread some of my stuff from time to time

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-02-27 16:50:06

So "happiness," "pleasure," "enjoyment" and "gratification" are the same word in Cantonese (and perhaps Mandarin and Wu).

It is interesting how the English language collects words for the sake of nuance.

SF_Sorrow · 2013-02-27 16:59:04

Actually not very much, haha. I was never really taught the language so I'm pretty much only fluent on English. Sorry I couldn't help you out there.

I only know that tidbit up there cause it's a pretty elementary phrase.

Viani · 2013-02-27 22:11:38

HA

Life Ain't Easy

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