i am still pretty convinced Sans doesn't know what happens on other playthroughs besides knowing that they exist, and being able to make inferences from player actions
at least, i like it better that way, i feel it's more consistent with his behaviour and makes him more interesting
i think the bit about the "echo flower" at Grillby's is a misjudged attempt at threatening the player (since he infers that if someone's making predictions to Papyrus, it's got to be the anomaly), and the more direct threat at the hotel is because by that point he strongly suspects that you're going to cause the end of the world
I agree with the first bit. The line about the "echo flower" reinforces that--Papyrus tells him a flower was talking to him, he assumes the flower was an echo flower rather than Flowey, who has learned to stay way out of his way by this point.
I find it interesting that the threat in the diner doesn't change based on playthrough--in runs where Frisk has killed people, it papers over why Sans hasn't gotten involved, but in runs where Frisk has just been the sweetest kid to everyone? I guess it's sweet to know that Toriel was watching out for you, but still.
see i killed nobody on my first and only playthrough, so the line was really peculiar and jarring to me when i got to that part
but if he doesn't know about Flowey, he doesn't know that Flowey was manipulating the timeline before Frisk got there, he only knows that "the anomaly" has been doing it
so regardless of how you play, Sans has reason to suspect you, assuming he doesn't know about Flowey
earlier naney pointed out that Sans colours the phrase "a talking flower" yellow and suggested that he's trying to warn you about Flowey, but i took it to be a clue from Toby, rather than Sans
earlier naney pointed out that Sans colours the phrase "a talking flower" yellow and suggested that he's trying to warn you about Flowey, but i took it to be a clue from Toby, rather than Sans
yeah
my general IMO is that sans has some sort of limited "impression" of each time loop he goes through, both because of that, the fact that he knows how many times he's killed you when you fight him, and because merely knowing about the existence of the time loops but not having any effect from going through them wouldnt put the utter, crushing weight on him that becomes evident when you SAVE him during the Asriel fight
I do want to also add that I think that this, along with a lot of the finer details of the plot, are kept deliberately ambiguous, and that decent arguments can be made for a wide range of interpretations
"Sans has a modicum of time loop awareness" is simply the interpretation that I feel to be most strongly supported out of all the options, and it is the one I find most intellectually satisfying
other people can feel differently and that's totally hunky dory, the wide range of meanings and possibilities is one of the things that makes this game so great
yes, that's absolutely fair, i agree that the text supports multiple interpretations
i just, like, was thinking about the weird threat and how i didn't really understand where he was coming from and then i had a theory and got excited, so i wanted to post about it :v
oh and i'm certain that Sans knows the loops exist, that's definite
i accidentally got it spelled out to me on my playthrough; i ended up going through the hall of judgment several times because i quit after i got there the first time, and then i died on Asgore and that was my last save, so i got the password thing
but there's other, less direct references, like "you haven't died a single time. what? am i wrong?"
but anyway, we know he has some science knowledge, like, there's the lab behind his house, and there's blueprints there which are heavily implied to have been written by Gaster, the old royal scientist
there's also the quantum physics book inside the joke book
so when he goes "our reports showed a massive anomaly in the timespace continuum", i think that's the result of some kind of test he did in the lab, i don't think he has any direct experience of living through the loops, he just knows that they exist, and he's just really good at picking up on it whenever Frisk does something which gives away that they knew what was coming
oh and i'm certain that Sans knows the loops exist, that's definite
i accidentally got it spelled out to me on my playthrough; i ended up going through the hall of judgment several times because i quit after i got there the first time, and then i died on Asgore and that was my last save, so i got the password thing
but there's other, less direct references, like "you haven't died a single time. what? am i wrong?"
IIRC if you replay, all the characters will have vague senses of deja vu with regards to everything you do; presumably sans has that as well as the intellectual knowledge that there's someone resetting all the timelines, etc.
IIRC if you replay, all the characters will have vague senses of deja vu with regards to everything you do; presumably sans has that as well as the intellectual knowledge that there's someone resetting all the timelines, etc.
i've actually only played it through the once, since i went pacifist from the beginning
with hindsight i think i missed out on a lot, because the game seems like it expects you to initially treat it like a regular RPG and win some fights and accidentally murder Goatmom and go back to your old save to bring her back, etc.
the fact that the kids gear is scattered all over the underground and also the fact that asgore is a huge weiner so one would kinda assume that he left it to someone else
I think Papyrus is actually more flanderized by the fandom, since at the start of the game, he's actually sad about his lot in life, but every interpretation of him takes this "Accepting no matter what" attitude like Papyrus has never been sad in his life, which isn't true.
and yeah Papyrus is definitely sad about stuff, he just tries to paper over it with positivity and boasting
i thought that was obvious but maybe some people aren't good at reading that? he's a fairly complex character i guess
as for Asgore i can believe he killed the kids, the sheer heaviness of that fight scene, the sense of inevitability, he definitely doesn't seem like this is the first time he's killed someone, and he hates himself for it
yeah, but i cant really see him killing all of them
i kinda assumed that he'd get Undyne to do it for the most part?
Then again, it seems like he's incredibly guilty by the time you meet him, for instance, if you kill Flowey instead of sparing him after the Mega-flowey encounter, load your save and try to spare Asgore again, instead of Flowey killing him, It's Asgore who kills himself to give you his own soul so you can hopefully find an answer in the outside world.
yeah, but i cant really see him killing all of them
i kinda assumed that he'd get Undyne to do it for the most part?
Then again, it seems like he's incredibly guilty by the time you meet him, for instance, if you kill Flowey instead of sparing him after the Mega-flowey encounter, load your save and try to spare Asgore again, instead of Flowey killing him, It's Asgore who kills himself to give you his own soul so you can hopefully find an answer in the outside world.
that guilt could totally come from just being responsible for all of the deaths, or just for committing a few murders or
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see i killed nobody on my first and only playthrough, so the line was really peculiar and jarring to me when i got to that part
but if he doesn't know about Flowey, he doesn't know that Flowey was manipulating the timeline before Frisk got there, he only knows that "the anomaly" has been doing it
so regardless of how you play, Sans has reason to suspect you, assuming he doesn't know about Flowey
earlier naney pointed out that Sans colours the phrase "a talking flower" yellow and suggested that he's trying to warn you about Flowey, but i took it to be a clue from Toby, rather than Sans
i just, like, was thinking about the weird threat and how i didn't really understand where he was coming from and then i had a theory and got excited, so i wanted to post about it :v
i accidentally got it spelled out to me on my playthrough; i ended up going through the hall of judgment several times because i quit after i got there the first time, and then i died on Asgore and that was my last save, so i got the password thing
but there's other, less direct references, like "you haven't died a single time. what? am i wrong?"
but anyway, we know he has some science knowledge, like, there's the lab behind his house, and there's blueprints there which are heavily implied to have been written by Gaster, the old royal scientist
there's also the quantum physics book inside the joke book
so when he goes "our reports showed a massive anomaly in the timespace continuum", i think that's the result of some kind of test he did in the lab, i don't think he has any direct experience of living through the loops, he just knows that they exist, and he's just really good at picking up on it whenever Frisk does something which gives away that they knew what was coming
i've actually only played it through the once, since i went pacifist from the beginning
with hindsight i think i missed out on a lot, because the game seems like it expects you to initially treat it like a regular RPG and win some fights and accidentally murder Goatmom and go back to your old save to bring her back, etc.
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
ultragoatmom
she's definitely prickly, the froggits are terrified of her
i thought that was obvious but maybe some people aren't good at reading that? he's a fairly complex character i guess
as for Asgore i can believe he killed the kids, the sheer heaviness of that fight scene, the sense of inevitability, he definitely doesn't seem like this is the first time he's killed someone, and he hates himself for it
like how does she not know who Sans is? she even knew Papyrus' name!
ah
i suppose that is to be expected of Toriel
idk how i missed that, i think i was just taken aback by the line
and he is
i just think his story is really dark