"Cinematic"

I am so so tired of seeing this as some sort of high standard to be aspired to
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  • Big flashy epic perspective-swirling HD-rendered video clips are only good in small doses, unless it's a documentary about some location that's best viewed in such perspective.

    Beyond that, a work needs more to stand on.  Good story, good gameplay, good music, ...
  • edited 2015-09-16 02:19:07
    THIS MACHINE KILLS FASCISTS
    We've come a long way from LaserDisc interactive games, yet people want to go back to that era so bad for some reason.
  • Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    We actually don't.

    It's the people who sell us games that do.
  • My dreams exceed my real life
  • THIS MACHINE KILLS FASCISTS
    needs more cowbell
  • I've learned to tolerate drama...except on the boat
    I know the term's been beaten to death in video games, but News Music Now also says the new WSB music is "cinematic":


  • My dreams exceed my real life
    I wish videogames would get more cinematic, because cinema runs at 23 frames per second and games are convinced 60 fps is a good idea
  • I've learned to tolerate drama...except on the boat
    I like high framerates
  • Touch the cow. Do it now.
    games should NOT be cinematic.

    ever.

    /pet peeve
  • Cinematic language is powerful. It wouldn't be aped the way it is if it wasn't effective.

    Games can use aspects of it but only selectively. There's no hard and fast rules to using cinematic language in games, which makes it difficult to discuss, especially with "kill all cutscenes 5ever" being such a prevalent viewpoint.
  • Sup bitches, witches, Haters, and trolls.
    I hope we can all agree, though, that quick-time events are kinda bullshit.
  • It depends. It's just a mechanic, not inherently good or bad.
  • Sup bitches, witches, Haters, and trolls.
    name me a good quick-time event
  • Touch the cow. Do it now.
    kill all cutscenes 6ever
  • edited 2015-09-16 04:48:20

    Calica said:

    name me a good quick-time event

    Dunno about good, but I didn't mind the quick time events in Resident Evil 4. Plus, I liked the QTE sword fight at the beginning of FF9.
  • Kexruct said:

    Cinematic language is powerful. It wouldn't be aped the way it is if it wasn't effective.

    Games can use aspects of it but only selectively. There's no hard and fast rules to using cinematic language in games, which makes it difficult to discuss, especially with "kill all cutscenes 5ever" being such a prevalent viewpoint.

    What do you mean by "language" -- as in word choice in the script, or cinematic elements (including visual and audio elements) in general?

    games should NOT be cinematic.

    ever.

    /pet peeve

    Let's bring back an old badly-worded thing that I said before that people didn't like hearing.

    Games shouldn't try to be more like movies.  Movies should try to be more like games.
  • Touch the cow. Do it now.
    why yes, let's have movies that are divided into levels and bosses, with a final boss at the end
  • Sup bitches, witches, Haters, and trolls.

    why yes, let's have movies that are divided into levels and bosses, with a final boss at the end

    tv show, but revolutionary girl utena lists the episodes as duels
  • edited 2015-09-16 05:11:46

    why yes, let's have movies that are divided into levels and bosses, with a final boss at the end

    In seriousness, dividing a movie into distinct chapters where increasingly significant and/or difficult antagonists are encountered is actually a viable method of storytelling.

    It is commonly encountered in the format of episodes of a TV series as chapters.
  • i wander through the forum with a lantern in broad daylight, when asked why, i say that i am looking for the good video games.
  • Calica said:

    name me a good quick-time event

    They work well in fighting games, Interrupts in Mass Effect were neatish, Dragon's Lair is literally made of QTEs and is, if nothing else, very unique for that.
  • edited 2015-09-16 06:08:37
    Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    Bayonetta, Wonderful 101, Asura's Wrath.

    Basically, quicktime events are good to get the blood pumping, get you excited, but you need to do it with an actual exciting thing, either with or as punctuation between setpieces.
  • it's weird that the word "cinematic" primarily makes me think of an album (Endtroducing....)
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    i don't think of Endtroducing... as cinematic, particularly.

    i don't see what's wrong with cinematic video games existing?  If you don't like them, play something else.
  • You don't? I do, it might be the movie samples admittedly.

    Ostensibly what's wrong with them is that they're taking priority away from simpler, more gameplay-focused projects, but that's demonstrably untrue. Doubly so now compared to a few years back.
  • Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    Yeah, there'll always be video games that emphasize system over cinematic, but they're being produced for less and less. And they're being made with less money, by people with less money.

    Like, when's the last time I played a Triple-A that wasn't trying to be a movie? The answer is honestly never, I only got into video games in the last few years.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    i recognize that it's a trend that people don't like.  i just, idk, i quite like cinematic games at times?  It's like, it was initially an unwelcome trend, for me, but the extent of the backlash bothers me.

    As for Endtroducing... i suppose so on the movie samples, but that's just never how it seemed to me.  It always struck me as more atmospheric.
  • Yeah, there'll always be video games that emphasize system over cinematic, but they're being produced for less and less. And they're being made with less money, by people with less money.

    indie boom tho

    Like, when's the last time I played a Triple-A that wasn't trying to be a movie? The answer is honestly never, I only got into video games in the last few years.
    Dark Souls II came out like last year

    granted that's probably more of a Double-A game but you get my meaning
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    I think what you're all missing is
    Odradek said:


  • Tachyon said:

    i recognize that it's a trend that people don't like.  i just, idk, i quite like cinematic games at times?  It's like, it was initially an unwelcome trend, for me, but the extent of the backlash bothers me.

    i feel u
    Tachyon said:



    As for Endtroducing... i suppose so on the movie samples, but that's just never how it seemed to me.  It always struck me as more atmospheric.

    the thing here is that i use those words as synonyms

    perhaps i should not
  • Sup bitches, witches, Haters, and trolls.
    honestly my main thing is that i used to have no credit card and now that i do i don't really have the time for sixty-dollar games
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    i guess in the context of music they probably are near-synonyms.
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    Odradek said:

    I think what you're all missing is

    Odradek said:



  • Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    I'm okay with cinematic games. Asura's Wrath is basically just a big-budget anime with brawling and shooting sections.

    I just never ever want to see Indigo Prophecy or Heavy Rain or Beyond Two Souls or any of its ilk ever again.
  • My dreams exceed my real life
  • edited 2015-09-17 21:14:09
    MachSpeed said:

    Yeah, there'll always be video games that emphasize system over cinematic, but they're being produced for less and less. And they're being made with less money, by people with less money.

    Like, when's the last time I played a Triple-A that wasn't trying to be a movie? The answer is honestly never, I only got into video games in the last few years.
    I would stop buying big-name (so-called "AAA") games, except I've already stopped and thus continuing to do what I already do has basically no effect anymore.
    Calica said:

    honestly my main thing is that i used to have no credit card and now that i do i don't really have the time for sixty-dollar games

    i know that feel, yo

    Tachyon said:

    i recognize that it's a trend that people don't like.  i just, idk, i quite like cinematic games at times?  It's like, it was initially an unwelcome trend, for me, but the extent of the backlash bothers me.

    As for Endtroducing... i suppose so on the movie samples, but that's just never how it seemed to me.  It always struck me as more atmospheric.

    If "cinematic" means being plot-heavy, I'm okay with it, actually, and I generally like that.

    However, the "cinematic" I don't like is filling the game with lots of cutscenes, and constantly taking the camera out of the player's perspective.  That's basically just visually reminding me "you're playing a game, and not actually part of this story".
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    The Myst games were pretty cinematic in many ways but they still were great puzzlers and really engaging.

    That said, when I hear people talk about the overuse of the word "cinematic," I automatically think lazy reviews of post-rock albums circa 2010.
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    Odradek said:

    I think what you're all missing is

    Odradek said:



  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Odradek said:

    Odradek said:

    I think what you're all missing is

    Odradek said:




    Oh my my my...
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    As it turns out, Christopher Walken is shit at Christopher Walken impersonations
  • edited 2015-09-17 20:34:28
    The hardline anti cutscene stance just annoys me quite a bit

    For one thing it's often directed at games that are designed around noninteractive cinematics (Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear) and are inextricably bound to at least having them in /some/ form, even if they aren't uniformly implemented well. But the complaints aren't directed at games that DO misuse cinematics (pretty much every Bioware game). Or they're directed at games that have far more deep tissue problems (Call of Duty) than trying to look like movies.

    It's part of this overall tendency to mistake texture for substance.

    And it seems somewhat related to the tendency to resent games that aren't immediately upfront with the experience they are going to be. Like, people are super sensitive to when a work's tone changes and will read it as a bad thing automatically just because it's not what they expected, or, more importantly, wanted.
  • i think that the Halo series has good cinematics for the most part. Not counting Halo 4 cuuuuuuuuuuuz fuck that game.

    otoh the third game in particular had weird moments where it tried to be cinematic without actually cutting to a cinematic and those were just weird.

    like the invincible brute on the first level.
  • Not a fan of post-Bungie Halo, I presume?
  • Halo 4's campaign is fucking awful.

    but that's a rant i will not make here
  • multiplayer was weirdly CoD-derivative but otherwise fine
  • Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    There's a good reason why people hate tonal shifts in video games. Because video games are six to twelve to a hundred hours long, but movies can only go up to two.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    that's a fair point

    i'm not sure i consider that a good reason proportionate to the amount of hate such shifts get, though
  • Actually as someone who does hate deliberately deceptive media in general, I'm not anti-cutscene, so I don't really think the two things are related.

    A game can be tonally consistent and still cutscene laden as all hell and can conversely flip tones constantly and not have a single cutscene.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    surprising the audience is not deceptive, imo

    or i guess it is but that seems like a needlessly dysphemistic way of putting it when twists and unpredictability are usually considered the mark of a good storyteller
  • Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    No, tone shifts don't have much to do with cutscenes, it's just something I wanted to address specifically.
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