"You're not supposed to like him"

You're not supposed to like Don Quixote either, but Vladimir Nabokov and Miguel Unamuno did.

Comments

  • See, I think there's a line between liking a character and trying to justify his actions.
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    Why? Why should an author be the one with the final say on whether a character is justified and likable?
  • Not the final say, just one of the more important voices in that conversation.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    i feel like 'you're not supposed to like this character' is usually put forward as a defence against people trying to condemn the work on moral grounds due to the presence of a flawed character

    nevertheless yea there's no reason you can't like a character you're 'not supposed to like'

    personally i do find sometimes i like a character as a concept, or like them in the context of a work of fiction, even if i wouldn't approve of their actions in real life
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    Kexruct said:

    Not the final say, just one of the more important voices in that conversation.

    Sure
  • The writer is the one that creates the narrative, which usually frames character actions in a specific light. So yes, while independent interpretations can arise and are also valid, the writer's insight is still important.
  • We can do anything if we do it together.
    I actually agree with Myr here.

    After all, I like Shinji Ikari and Holden Caulfield despite not being supposed to like them.
  • are you not supposed to like Shinji?

    I guess he does become kind of a dick as the show goes on but early on he's basically an average teenager.
  • We can do anything if we do it together.
    End of Evangelion makes it relatively clear you’re not supposed to like him.
  • I don't think "relatable" and "likable" are quite the same thing
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    The point of all great fiction is to feel smug moral superiority over someone who doesn't actually exist.
  • I actually really like The Catcher in The Rye.

    But you know, whatever works for you.
  • We can do anything if we do it together.
    I really like Catcher in the Rye, too.
  • I don't know, are we the reader really supposed to feel above Holden Caulfield?

    I didn't when I read the book. I was sympathetic. Alternately "I've been there" and "oh no, don't do that, it won't end well".
  • I feel like the author's word should be given considerable weight at least.  I mean when your English teacher starts telling you every character is symbolic of Jesus, and the author comes in and says "no, that wasn't intended at all and you might be a bit crazy", I'm more inclined to believe the author.

    That said, sometimes the author is an idiot shilling a character so hard they legitimately forgot he's actually kind of a horrible person and we'd call any other character doing those things a psychopath.
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    Bee said:

    I feel like the author's word should be given considerable weight at least.  I mean when your English teacher starts telling you every character is symbolic of Jesus, and the author comes in and says "no, that wasn't intended at all and you might be a bit crazy", I'm more inclined to believe the author.


    That said, sometimes the author is an idiot shilling a character so hard they legitimately forgot he's actually kind of a horrible person and we'd call any other character doing those things a psychopath.
    I'm not.
  • edited 2015-09-07 00:30:49
    imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    Bee said:

    I feel like the author's word should be given considerable weight at least.  I mean when your English teacher starts telling you every character is symbolic of Jesus, and the author comes in and says "no, that wasn't intended at all and you might be a bit crazy", I'm more inclined to believe the author.

    This makes sense only if you think the text has an objective meaning, a stance which pretty much breaks down under close scrutiny.

    Not to say, i hasten to add, that the author's view counts for nothing.  But if a (competent) English teacher is telling you all the characters are symbolic of Jesus, and the author says "that wasn't intended", those are not mutually exclusive statements, and to accuse the teacher of being crazy is to misunderstand how literature studies generally works.

    i mean the point is, it's usually assumed within the field, to study the text.  Lit is not biography, or history.  Those can be applied to lit, of course, and can yield insights, but there's no reason they should get priority over other interpretations of the text.  If the characters really do seem a lot like Jesus, and interpreting them in this way is more interesting than what the author intended, then there's no rule that says you can't study the text with that perspective in mind.  It won't tell you what the author thought, but that's not necessarily your objective.

    The usual stock example here is Fahrenheit 451.  Having written a book about censorship, and practically everyone who read it thought was a very good book about censorship, Bradbury later started claiming that it was actually about how TV is bad and will lead to the downfall of society.  Even having heard the author's professed intentions, most people are in agreement that the censorship interpretation is the stronger and more interesting one.
  • edited 2015-09-07 00:48:40
    My dreams exceed my real life
    nm
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    image
  • Splat Charger Specialist
    Shinji never really goes full dick, but he is definitely well fucked on the head by EoE, as is everyone.

    None of the Eva pilots are good people, but that has a lot to do with the fact that their lives were shittier than one could even begin to imagine.
  • wut

    Light Yagami had an ok childhood
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    yeah i was thinking that, iirc he came from a pretty comfortably well-off family with no particular issues at home, went to a good school and had good grades
  • Munch munch, chomp chomp...
    Kira.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    ohhh that makes more sense

    i don't know my mangaka
  • BeeBee
    edited 2016-01-19 04:32:54
    They really need to stop naming batshit crazy murderers Kira.  Because I can think of a third one off the top of my head.
  • Sup bitches, witches, Haters, and trolls.
    but it sounds just like "killer" which is the glorious eigo word for "satsujinsha"
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    Holden Caulfield>people who go on the Internet to smugly dunk on misaimed fandom
  • Munch munch, chomp chomp...
    Yeah.
  • On the other hand, Berserk. 
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