The Matter of Britain
Those darn Saxons!
Use this thread to discuss different Arthurian legends. How many have you read? Which of the multiple, contradictory versions do you like best and why?
Here's a quick summary of the matter's development:
9th-10th century Wales: Arthur was a sub-Roman dux bellorum (war duke) who led the Britons to victory over the Saxons in 12 battles (Historia Brittonum ch. 56), climaxing at Mount Badon (ibid & Annals of Wales). 21 years later, he fell with Mordred at the Battle of Camlann (Annals of Wales). 36 years after that, Peredur kills Gwenddoleu son of Ceidio (a descendant of Old King Cole) at the Battle of Arfderydd and Merlin goes crazy.
1130s Britain: Geoffrey of Monmouth writes a Latin History of the Kings of Britain wherein Arthur was the greatest king ever, you guys! Better than Caesar, Constantine or Charlemagne! He went to war with Rome and totally would have become emperor if his nephew Mordred hadn't staged a coup and married Guinevere. They're both mortally wounded at Camlann, but Arthur is carried off to Avalon. Also, Merlin was a contemporary of Arthur's father Uther Pendragon and uncle Aurelius Ambrosius.
France, 1170-1190: Chrétien de Troyes and his patron Marie de France think Arthur was the greatest king ever, you guys! She writes short narrative poems (lays), while he writes long ones (romances) - each about half the length of an epic. Arthur is replaced as the protagonist by the various knights who serve him. At least one of these, Lancelot, is a French invention. He would become the most famous knight. He also wrote romances of Erec, Yvain, and an unfinished one for Perceval, who goes on a quest for something called the Holy Grail. These three are either made-up adventures of historical Welsh sub-kings Geraint, Owain, and Peredur, or inventions like Lancelot who Welsh translators later identified with them (see the three romances in the Mabinogion). Note that in the Welsh adaptation, Peredur sees not the Holy Grail, but a severed head, and the religious mystery with the mystery of whose head it is.
Germany, 1210s: A warrior-poet named Wolfram von Eschenbach writes Parzival, in which Sir P. achieves the Grail after reconciling with his half-African half-brother Feirifiz, while the older hero Gawain also searches for the Grail but goes way off base and hangs out with ladies. Also, the Grail is a stone that fell from Heaven when the neutral angels used it as a shelter during Lucifer's rebellion. This branch would be unknown outside Germany if Richard Wagner hadn't adapted it into an opera.
France, 1210s: Some Cistercian monks who have enjoyed Chrétien's romances decide that Lancelot would have been the best knight ever, you guys, if he hadn't given in to lust. They write a prose version of the romances (the Vulgate Cycle) where, when Sir P. is unable to achieve the Grail (which by now is the cup of the Last Supper), the day is saved by Galahad, the illegitimate son of Lancelot who's able to surpass his father because he was raised in a monastery. He leads Perceval and Sir Bors to the Grail. When the Grail is taken from Britain, Arthur's disastrous wars with the Romans, Lancelot, and Mordred happen. Having given this unity to the material, they later added two prequels, a history of the Grail and a history of Merlin and Arthur from the former's conception to the establishment of the Round Table.
France, 2nd quarter of the 1200s: Somebody else copies the Vulgate prequels, adds more early adventures (Suite du Merlin, including Merlin being magically buried by his protege Nimue) severely abridges the pre-Grail adventures of the Knights of the Round Table, adds a severely abridged version of the romance of Tristan and Iseult, and writes a new Grail Quest where everybody and their dog searches for it, but with the same ending as the Vulgate. This is called the Post-Vulgate Cycle.
England, 1470s: a knight named Sir Thomas Malory compiles Le Morte d'Arthur from the following sources:
Book I - Suite du Merlin
Book II - a 14th century English alliterative Death of Arthur (based directly on Geoffrey, so no Lancelot affair), with the war against Mordred left out.
Book III - Vulgate Lancelot
Book IV - the adventures of Gawain's brother Sir Gareth, possibly Malory's invention.
Book V - the French prose Tristan.
Book VI - Vulgate Grail Quest
Book VII - more adventures from the Vulgate Lancelot, including the original Knight of the Cart adventure.
Book VIII - a 14th century English Death of Arthur in stanzas, where Mordred uncovers Guinevere's adultery and Lancelot saves her from the execution site, carrying her off to France, from whence Geoffrey's account of Mordred's treason is followed with Lancelot in place of the Romans.
1830s England: Romanticism leads to a revival of interest in Malory's Arthurian cycle, most famously by the poet laureate Alfred Lord Tennyson. Romantics in other Western European countries, such as Richard Wagner, mine their own languages' versions for new stories.
... and so on down to the present.
Use this thread to discuss different Arthurian legends. How many have you read? Which of the multiple, contradictory versions do you like best and why?
Here's a quick summary of the matter's development:
9th-10th century Wales: Arthur was a sub-Roman dux bellorum (war duke) who led the Britons to victory over the Saxons in 12 battles (Historia Brittonum ch. 56), climaxing at Mount Badon (ibid & Annals of Wales). 21 years later, he fell with Mordred at the Battle of Camlann (Annals of Wales). 36 years after that, Peredur kills Gwenddoleu son of Ceidio (a descendant of Old King Cole) at the Battle of Arfderydd and Merlin goes crazy.
1130s Britain: Geoffrey of Monmouth writes a Latin History of the Kings of Britain wherein Arthur was the greatest king ever, you guys! Better than Caesar, Constantine or Charlemagne! He went to war with Rome and totally would have become emperor if his nephew Mordred hadn't staged a coup and married Guinevere. They're both mortally wounded at Camlann, but Arthur is carried off to Avalon. Also, Merlin was a contemporary of Arthur's father Uther Pendragon and uncle Aurelius Ambrosius.
France, 1170-1190: Chrétien de Troyes and his patron Marie de France think Arthur was the greatest king ever, you guys! She writes short narrative poems (lays), while he writes long ones (romances) - each about half the length of an epic. Arthur is replaced as the protagonist by the various knights who serve him. At least one of these, Lancelot, is a French invention. He would become the most famous knight. He also wrote romances of Erec, Yvain, and an unfinished one for Perceval, who goes on a quest for something called the Holy Grail. These three are either made-up adventures of historical Welsh sub-kings Geraint, Owain, and Peredur, or inventions like Lancelot who Welsh translators later identified with them (see the three romances in the Mabinogion). Note that in the Welsh adaptation, Peredur sees not the Holy Grail, but a severed head, and the religious mystery with the mystery of whose head it is.
Germany, 1210s: A warrior-poet named Wolfram von Eschenbach writes Parzival, in which Sir P. achieves the Grail after reconciling with his half-African half-brother Feirifiz, while the older hero Gawain also searches for the Grail but goes way off base and hangs out with ladies. Also, the Grail is a stone that fell from Heaven when the neutral angels used it as a shelter during Lucifer's rebellion. This branch would be unknown outside Germany if Richard Wagner hadn't adapted it into an opera.
France, 1210s: Some Cistercian monks who have enjoyed Chrétien's romances decide that Lancelot would have been the best knight ever, you guys, if he hadn't given in to lust. They write a prose version of the romances (the Vulgate Cycle) where, when Sir P. is unable to achieve the Grail (which by now is the cup of the Last Supper), the day is saved by Galahad, the illegitimate son of Lancelot who's able to surpass his father because he was raised in a monastery. He leads Perceval and Sir Bors to the Grail. When the Grail is taken from Britain, Arthur's disastrous wars with the Romans, Lancelot, and Mordred happen. Having given this unity to the material, they later added two prequels, a history of the Grail and a history of Merlin and Arthur from the former's conception to the establishment of the Round Table.
France, 2nd quarter of the 1200s: Somebody else copies the Vulgate prequels, adds more early adventures (Suite du Merlin, including Merlin being magically buried by his protege Nimue) severely abridges the pre-Grail adventures of the Knights of the Round Table, adds a severely abridged version of the romance of Tristan and Iseult, and writes a new Grail Quest where everybody and their dog searches for it, but with the same ending as the Vulgate. This is called the Post-Vulgate Cycle.
England, 1470s: a knight named Sir Thomas Malory compiles Le Morte d'Arthur from the following sources:
Book I - Suite du Merlin
Book II - a 14th century English alliterative Death of Arthur (based directly on Geoffrey, so no Lancelot affair), with the war against Mordred left out.
Book III - Vulgate Lancelot
Book IV - the adventures of Gawain's brother Sir Gareth, possibly Malory's invention.
Book V - the French prose Tristan.
Book VI - Vulgate Grail Quest
Book VII - more adventures from the Vulgate Lancelot, including the original Knight of the Cart adventure.
Book VIII - a 14th century English Death of Arthur in stanzas, where Mordred uncovers Guinevere's adultery and Lancelot saves her from the execution site, carrying her off to France, from whence Geoffrey's account of Mordred's treason is followed with Lancelot in place of the Romans.
1830s England: Romanticism leads to a revival of interest in Malory's Arthurian cycle, most famously by the poet laureate Alfred Lord Tennyson. Romantics in other Western European countries, such as Richard Wagner, mine their own languages' versions for new stories.
... and so on down to the present.
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i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
Justice: But how?
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis