i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
The internet has quite a few people whose beliefs are way-WAY outside the norm, and I'm sure they translate a lot of the flak they get into "People are PERSECUTING me!"
So I don't know if Gryphon's post about "Logocentrism" (a term that, in any case, has absolutely no place being thrown around outside the context of deconstructive critical readings)
That was just a joke on Gryphon's part. The whole "formal logic as a social construct" was kind of the dead giveaway there.
or Corporal Forsythe's characterization of "privilege" as "inherent racism" that makes you "basically a card-carrying member of the Klan" are descriptions of actual arguments that you guys have seen, and it doesn't strike me as particularly far-fetched that somebody might have been daft enough to say those things
but on the face and without that presumed context, they just look to me like extremely ugly strawman arguments attempting to wreck the credibility of an entirely valid and worthy cause.
What you need to realize is that we all have privilege to some degree: white privilege, male privilege, heterosexual privilege,etc. The hardest thing is to do is to get over your instinct to fight and say, “But I’m not like that!”
What is being said here is everyone is a fucking asshole no matter what culture you come from, how you were raised, etc.
If you can do it, you’ve completed the first step towards being a pro-equality in reality rather than simply saying and believing that you are.
"If you just conform to exactly what we're saying here, then you'll finally stop being such an asshole."
Your argument seems to be based on the idea that people think that privilege = assholery, which implies racist, sexist, heterophobic, cisphobic tendencies in social justice bloggers.
Your argument seems to be based on the idea that people think that privilege = assholery, which implies racist, sexist, heterophobic, cisphobic tendencies in social justice bloggers.
Implication is entirely the burden of the audience, because people can (and will) draw presumptions out of anything. "Privilege", if it existed as SJ bloggers describe it, would be assholery. I don't assume that SJ bloggers are any -ist or -ic or whatever fashionable new terms they've invented along those lines. What I do think is that the majority of them are participants in a contest to see whose moral high horse is the tallest.
Implication is entirely the burden of the audience, because people can (and will) draw presumptions out of anything. "Privilege", if it existed as SJ bloggers describe it, would be assholery. I don't assume that SJ bloggers are any -ist or -ic or whatever fashionable new terms they've invented along those lines. What I do think is that the majority of them are participants in a contest to see whose moral high horse is the tallest.
Just because the SJW are all loonies doesn't mean that Privilege for white males isn't a real thing.
Your argument seems to be based on the idea that people think that privilege = assholery, which implies racist, sexist, heterophobic, cisphobic tendencies in social justice bloggers.
Implication is entirely the burden of the audience, because people can (and will) draw presumptions out of anything. "Privilege", if it existed as SJ bloggers describe it, would be assholery. I don't assume that SJ bloggers are any -ist or -ic or whatever fashionable new terms they've invented along those lines. What I do think is that the majority of them are participants in a contest to see whose moral high horse is the tallest.
Really now? Can you show me some examples of SJ bloggers making privilege out to be assholery?
Just because the SJW are all loonies doesn't mean that Privilege for white males isn't a real thing.
Real things can be measured. As I quoted above from the very folks who defined what this whole "privilege" thing is, the two main factors of privilege is certain groups of people automatically have it despite the reality of their actual status and living conditions, and their denial of this is proof that they have it. This is bullshit in its purest, distilled form. Like I said, "or you're a bigot" is not a valid metric.
Well, I thought privilege was defined by something you receive from society because of some quality you posses. Examples I've seen are heterosexual privilege - holding hands/kissing in public without worry about being scorned by others, white privilege - a better chance of getting hired than someone of color (a reason why there is apparently a trend of people of color giving their children more "white names." Apparently, many people hiring will look at them names and if they seem "ethnic" will ignore the applicant), etc. I think the idea of privilege has been misused (example I have seen is an acquaintance on facebook who posts post of political/social status updates. And I've seen a particular posters tell a white person that their argument/perspective is invalid because they posses white privilege.) But, I do think that privilege exists to some extent. I mean, a rich person will have the opportunity to choose from many cars, including expensive ones, while the only car I might be able to afford will be used.
Real things can be measured. As I quoted above from the very folks who defined what this whole "privilege" thing is, the two main factors of privilege is certain groups of people automatically have it despite the reality of their actual status and living conditions, and their denial of this is proof that they have it. This is bullshit in its purest, distilled form. Like I said, "or you're a bigot" is not a valid metric.
Except they have done experiments which can show that there is such a thing as a racial or sex privilege. But ofc, since you're probably a white man, you're used to have privilege as the default setting and anything that deviates from this is unfair to you.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
"Except they have done experiments which can show that there is such a thing as a racial or sex privilege. But ofc, since you're probably a white man, you're used to have privilege as the default setting and anything that deviates from this is unfair to you."
I'm really not sure how much sense that makes. How exactly does one deviate from or is deviated from the "privileges" one enjoys as a white male?
Except they have done experiments which can show that there is such a thing as a racial or sex privilege. But ofc, since you're probably a white man, you're used to have privilege as the default setting and anything that deviates from this is unfair to you.
....which is exactly the roundabout fallacy on the definition of privilege that I'm trying to point out here. You're basically saying that any logical point that I've brought to the table regarding this concept is invalidated because I'm white.
Except they have done experiments which can show that there is such a thing as a racial or sex privilege. But ofc, since you're probably a white man, you're used to have privilege as the default setting and anything that deviates from this is unfair to you.
....which is exactly the roundabout fallacy on the definition of privilege that I'm trying to point out here. You're basically saying that any logical point that I've brought to the table regarding this concept is invalidated because I'm white.
I'm really not sure how much sense that makes. How exactly does one deviate from or is deviated from the "privileges" one enjoys as a white male?
I was thinking about something I read on the Bioware forums about a group that used to privilege that feels aggravated if another group chips away at that privilege in name of equality.
Whale's and my race have no bearing on this conversation whatsoever. If he was green and I was plaid it wouldn't make a bit of difference to what's being discussed here.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
I was thinking about something I read on the Bioware forums about a group that used to privilege that feels aggravated if another group chips away at that privilege in name of equality.
That's a bit vague. I'm not sure in this case if group 2 has a legitimate reason or not.
It must have been hard growing up without reading comprehension.
You said that whale was trying to say you couldn't argue about privilege because you were white, whale is white and has been arguing about priviledge so clearly he wouldn't tell you your points were invalid because of your whiteness. I was pointing this out and you suddenly pulled some egalitarian "race doesn't matter" bullshit which was completely disconnected from the conversation. Because of this, I assume you can't read.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
<Mod Hat>
Clause, if that was directed at CF, it was uncalled for. Whale, stop making things worse.
</Mod Hat>
To be honest Whale, I wasn't sure and am still not sure how serious you're being. Do you really think "having white privileges" means whites just can't discuss certain things without being blinded by their privileges?
To be honest Whale, I wasn't sure and am still not sure how serious you're being. Do you really think "having white privileges" means whites just can't discuss certain things without being blinded by their privileges?
Did I say that?
I said that CF was dismissing white male privilege because I assume he isa white male and doesn't notice it so therefore gets upset that other groups who don't have this privilege getting special help. Then he goes and plays the race card.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
He didn't play the race card. His whole point was that SJ bloggers do...well, pretty much what you're doing right now and dismissing his point because he's "white and privileged".
Doctor Who reference in Pokemon B2W2? Headcanon accepted.
You accused me of using race to silence you
But ofc, since you're probably a white man, you're used to have privilege as the default setting and anything that deviates from this is unfair to you.
since you're probably a white man
I'm sorry. Was I supposed to interpret this some other way? "As you are probably a white man, your privilege blinds you to the fact that you have privilege and you don't like to be told this." Is this not what you meant?
I'm as white as a pint of milk.
And how does this validate whatever you're trying to say? What does you being white have any bearing on the discussion at hand? Am I supposed to be impressed by you being white and enlightened to the concept of privilege?
And how does this validate whatever you're trying to say? What does you being white have any bearing on the discussion at hand? Am I supposed to be impressed by you being white and enlightened to the concept of privilege?
I really don't care.
I'm sorry. Was I supposed to interpret this some other way? "As you are probably a white man, your privilege blinds you to the fact that you have privilege and you don't like to be told this." Is this not what you meant?
Well no but you are acting like it is news to you.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
I understood his posts more that he's dismissing the idea that people have "privilege" simply because they're white and male, and that there are social-economic and other factors many people don't consider when they talk about this privilege.
I understood his posts more that he's dismissing the idea that people have "privilege" simply because they're white and male, and that there are social-economic and other factors many people don't consider when they talk about this privilege.
If that is his position then hes not expressing it at all.
Just because the SJW are all loonies doesn't mean that Privilege for white males isn't a real thing.
Real things can be measured. As I quoted above from the very folks who defined what this whole "privilege" thing is, the two main factors of privilege is certain groups of people automatically have it despite the reality of their actual status and living conditions, and their denial of this is proof that they have it. This is bullshit in its purest, distilled form. Like I said, "or you're a bigot" is not a valid metric.
"It is a matter of grave importance that Fairy tales should be respected.... Whosoever alters them to suit his own opinions, whatever they are, is guilty, to our thinking, of an act of presumption, and appropriates to himself what does not belong to him." -- Charles Dickens
@Fouria: "Oppressively logocentric" was hyperbolic jest. You can ask any of your SJ acquaintances what insights they think Foucault's "power/knowledge" concept gives them into discourse between privileged and oppressed persons. Individuals vary, and I'm not going to paint them all with a broad brush, my skepticism of their presuppositions notwithstanding.
the two main factors of privilege is certain groups of people automatically have it despite the reality of their actual status and living conditions, and their denial of this is proof that they have it.
Do I have really describe my time as a poverty stricken white person?
the two main factors of privilege is certain groups of people automatically have it despite the reality of their actual status and living conditions, and their denial of this is proof that they have it.
Do I have really describe my time as a poverty stricken white person?
Of course. And I can share with you mine. Both will be anecdotal and anecdotes have no real bearing on the very broad concept we're currently discussing.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
^^...This isn't a "my life sucked more than yours" pissing contest.
He's making the point that there are many whites who don't exactly enjoy the good life and how these bloggers still say they have White Privilege and them denying it is pointless because "of course they don't see it, they're white".
^I've seen it be acknowledge but then it does become a sucky life pissing contest. "Oh well, you're a poor white person. That sucks. But you're life isn't as bad as a poor black person's."
He's making the point that there are many whites who don't exactly enjoy the good life and how these bloggers still say they have White Privilege and them denying it is pointless because "of course they don't see it, they're white".
But I haven't been talking about the SJW bloggers so its a red herring.
^I've seen it be acknowledge but then it does become a sucky life pissing contest. "Oh well, you're a poor white person. That sucks. But you're life isn't as bad as a poor black person's."
He's making the point that there are many whites who don't exactly enjoy the good life and how these bloggers still say they have White Privilege and them denying it is pointless because "of course they don't see it, they're white".
But I haven't been talking about the SJW bloggers so its a red herring.
It seems to me that you two aren't really talking about the same thing, then.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
I'm sure CF can defend his own points, but I think he was mostly talking in the context of SJ bloggers automatically assigning any white person "privileges" regardless of of their current social-economic status and how THAT was "bullshit", not necessarily the entire concept of "privileges" .
Doctor Who reference in Pokemon B2W2? Headcanon accepted.
I believe we are. I'm making the blunt point that "privilege" is a bullshit concept and stating reasons why, Wind Fish here is saying that privilege is a very real thing.
Once you have a basic grasp on the system of privilege, the next step is one simple self-realization: you are privileged.
You just are. No ifs, ands, or buts. If you were born with a certain skin color or genitalia, then you are privileged. Perfectly scientific and logical, don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain, trust us on this, or you're a bigot.
Chances are, your reading that has made you feel defensive. While it’s a perfectly natural, and common, reaction, don’t let it get in your way of actually thinking about what the statement means.
"It" being critical thinking and logic.
What you need to realize is that we all have privilege to some degree: white privilege, male privilege, heterosexual privilege, etc.
Everyone has privilege. Which goes against the very definition of privilege, but only bigots demand adherence to definition.
The hardest thing is to do is to get over your instinct to fight and say, “But I’m not like that!” If you can do it, you’ve completed the first step towards being a pro-equality in reality rather than simply saying and believing that you are.
Really, that's all you have to do. Just accept the fact that you're horrible (and really really mean it deep down in your black little privileged heart) and the world will become a better place for it. This is actually somewhat novel as it tries to offer a solution to this phantom problem. For the most part, SJ adheres to the concept that the "privileged" cannot perceive the problems of the "unprivileged" in addition to being completely incapable of being aware of their own "privilege." So basically, whenever they came up with this problem, a good many of them decided that it can't even be complimented with an solution.
And no amount of Febreze can cover up the smell of bullshit from all this.
Comments
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
Dumbthingswhitepplsay and self-hating white bloggers are pretty much what that group of bloggers consist of anyway.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
You accused me of using race to silence you but I'm as white as a pint of milk.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
I said that CF was dismissing white male privilege because I assume he isa white male and doesn't notice it so therefore gets upset that other groups who don't have this privilege getting special help. Then he goes and plays the race card.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
Well, then would you please clarify what you meant?
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis