God he cannot bless not leading your hand In your mother's womb you feel warm and safe But that's a fallacy cause this is your grave Do you want to feel how hard it can be Vegetating flesh was always the fee For living with this pain and in agony Until the devil comes and fetches will glee
Kommt heraus, kommt heraus Embryodead you will go mad let's ease your pain Embryodead you are condemned Don't attempt to exist in this world full of hate
Coincidentally, I had just recently heard of Sam Harris's The Moral Landscape. I can't come up with a summary that I think is appropriate, so I'll just link the Wikipedia article.
Gelzo: Exactly. First of all, just because they're not the kind of humans these people like doesn't mean someone doesn't like them, and second, as you pointed out, not even being non-human would be a good excuse, as there's plenty of people who love animals!
(Sure, you could try to scare people by making comparisons to animals with bad reputations, like rats or mice or insects, but that's pretty transparent these days.)
I'm pretty doubtful about transhumanism, but man the first comment here is dumb.
I usually don't post this blog, because it comes off as more of a socially awkward teenager with horrible problems with depression venting than a smugly bitter internet jerk making horrible arguments, but man, that first comment.
Oh, I forgot Tongpu was into that. In fact, I don't remember much about him, since he'd win the "Most likely to be a serial killer" award if TVT gave them out, and so I'm not sure I really want to. :P
>Huh, I wasn't even aware that any antinatalist followed their beliefs through to their natural end, "EVERYONE MUST DIE!"
Tomu (negative utilitarian on TSTSNBN, also a member here but I never see him post) apparently believes that everyone would be better off dead, although it's a hypothetical and he doesn't actually want to kill anyone.
" I have to say, I am consistently struck with the gender differences in self-reported experiences of depression on the internet.
It really reminds me of my mother, who, like Y's mother, brought kids into this world to validate her own depressed existence.
Of four, Im the only one who really got it bad as far as consistent long-term depression goes.
I love my mother, but I don't "understand" her decision the way Y apparently does.
I know that on some level I truly resent it.
Part of the resentment, Ive realized, is because of the different way I experience depression than her - for reasons of gender.
She is non-logical and amoral enough to have a bunch of kids to make herself feel warm and fuzzy for a few years while they are little and cute. Im not.
I always read these testimonials from "depressed" women on the internet, and they almost always have RELATIONSHIPS, or if not that always SEX LIVES. Someone mentioned before how often they have fucking reproduced themselves. SICKENING.
A depressed man is deeply repulsive to women, and is treated like an invisible piece of shit by them and most men.
Women still get their needs met, as long as they have a pulse.
I think Ive said enough."
Yes, you certainly have, anonymous commenter, you certainly have.
A depressed man is deeply repulsive to women, and is treated like an invisible piece of shit by them and most men.
Women still get their needs met, as long as they have a pulse.
This is setting off my Nice Guy-dar. Seriously, dude, it's sounds like you're not even trying; I've been friends with women before who acted the exact same way, so the battle-of-the-sexes BS isn't helping your case any.
This girl is poly. Flirt with her. If nothing else, it might be a fun date. :P
""Depriving them of the benefit of their expectations. That also has implications for our (questionable) project of relieving people of their happy illusions. Will have to think about that."
I shall, for my part, reflect ... (Oooh, pun)
Seriously thinking though, I can bring up: • are illusions 'due' or are we rightfully undoing wrongs? • if the unfair distribution of happiness is an injustice, then is the forceful balancing out not justice?"
"if the unfair distribution of happiness is an injustice, then is the forceful balancing out not justice?"
" if the unfair distribution of happiness is an injustice, then is the forceful balancing out not justice?"
Just...wow. Are all of these people My Little Pol Pots?
Bazompora in particular! As if the logical fallacies and the sex-shaming weren't bad enough, he starts advocating genocide now? Just what kind of bastard is this guy?
I remember a school lunchtable debate I had with a few friends about who was eviller, Hitler or Pol Pot. we figured it was Pol Pot, because the only thing more senseless and illogical than killing someone because of their race ethnicity or orientation is killing them because they just so happen know someone who wears glasses.
Not only that, but it also presupposes that there's only one way to be happy, and considering some anti-natalists' predilections toward mass murder, I wouldn't be surprised if they're just euphemising euthanasia...
I can see how it does kinda sound like a euphemism, but if he meant like a genocide of the happy or something he'd almost certainly say it outright. I mean, he already advocated forced suffering and the eradication of humanity which is already about as bad as it gets, so it's not like he's the type to mince his words.
...he is serious, isn't he? I mean, he's not just saying this to be provocative or shocking?
OK, so you've linked a lot of bizarre people, but this doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense to me. I thought they hated suffering? I thought that was the whole point and the supposed justification for all the rest?
Let me let Bazompora describe his position in his own words.
"Sapience imposes upon us a suffering more vast than that of any other species: the suffering of hundreds of others will resound in our minds, we fear not only present, but the future aswell, as we realise failure and downfall could lie behind every turn and are always aware that the merciless Sword of Damocles looms above our heads and that it's rope will not last, we are scarred by our existence in this world with every turn of wind. And while non-sapients animals do feel pain and even fear and rejection, their suffering is not constant and unforgiving; it is mostly accute and very short-lived. A human will suffer a vast multitude more than an animal in the same circomstances of dread, for we will always feel one kind of hurt at a given conscious moment.
And let me tell you another thing: I don't "love" animals; I don't even 'like' them. They have, unlike individual humans, NO redeeming qualities and I certainly cannot be bothered with that fuzzy feeling that you have for them. They mean nothing to me because they are devoid of meaning: they are but conduits of pain, fear and satisfaction; they might be similar to many humans, but they are nothing like me. And having to share spaces with either kind of vermin is a nuisance that impacts upon my whole unasked-for life in a definite negative sense.
And do not forget that we are in a world of hurt, to which animals are loyal servants; only humans can rise above their wholesome collaboration. And here is, where unlike speceisists, my mind goes out, not to "mankind" or some arbitrary chosen species near extinction, but only to those individuals who have not sold out to nature. It's only a matter of fact, that only humans, as part of the sole sapient species, are represented among these and that often human sell-outs will be 'collaterally' empathised with."
So yeah, some antinatalists might be about ending suffering, but Bazompora is a tender misanthrope who hides behind a thin veneer of negative utilitarian concern.
Remember back in the 50s when they'd record like Elvis singing YOU AIN'T NOTHIN BUT A HOUND DOG and then they'd turn the record over and reverse it and it was all NYERP NYERP NYERP NYERP NYERP and people were all like, "That is actually the voice of Satan coming from that song."
I'm guessing that they'd think the "minor angst" over having your pet die would be outweighed by the knowledge that you've done good by ending the inherent suffering of a tortured victim's life.
Ninja'd. And apparently, the second part of my statement doesn't apply to this guy.
Let's not lose perspective here. Those are some horrendous things, but for all we know the author might just be an autistic kid with depression living in his mom's basement. If we're going to suddenly fire into righteous fury mode, there are plenty of people more worthy of our anger. Rapists, child molesters, murderers, terrorists, all sorts.
He's vile, yes, but as far as we know he's little more than an Internet tough guy on a soap box. His posts are delusional, entirely absurd, and worthy only of contempt.
True; I was just about to edit that post to tone down the rage, but I couldn't think of a better way to word it. Either way, I seriously think he's a danger at least to himself.
I'm not disputing he's scum. But when I see a post saying that somebody "needs to die" for a comment they posted on the Internet, forgive me if I think people are overreacting a wee bit.
" for all we know the author might just be an autistic kid with depression living in his mom's basement"
I've seen at least three antinatalists who had autism by the way. Of the three, Estnihil seems like a nice kid who just happened to find a philosophy that helped him find other people with depression and seems to actually have one of the higher senses of self-awareness in the AN community, Aidan Mclaren who had his depression and anger issues combine with his clearly mostly untreated autism in a terrible way that basically made him antinatalist Chris-chan, and CulturalPhillistine(this is more of a hunch than anything else. He mentions not being able to stand physical contact with other human beings in one of his videos and it would go a ways toward explaining his flat affect and monotonic voice) who was, uh, I can't really describe CulturalPhillistine, he's kind of bizarre enough to deserve his own three-page treatise.
Let's not lose perspective here. Those are some horrendous things, but for all we know the author might just be an autistic kid with depression living in his mom's basement. If we're going to suddenly fire into righteous fury mode, there are plenty of people more worthy of our anger. Rapists, child molesters, murderers, terrorists, all sorts.
He's vile, yes, but as far as we know he's little more than an Internet tough guy on a soap box. His posts are delusional, entirely absurd, and worthy only of contempt.
Do I actually need to say that I wasn't being literal?
Comments
People are not fishes/frogs.
In your mother's womb you feel warm and safe
But that's a fallacy cause this is your grave
Do you want to feel how hard it can be
Vegetating flesh was always the fee
For living with this pain and in agony
Until the devil comes and fetches will glee
Kommt heraus, kommt heraus
Embryodead you will go mad let's ease your pain
Embryodead you are condemned
Don't attempt to exist in this world full of hate
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
Tomu (negative utilitarian on TSTSNBN, also a member here but I never see him post) apparently believes that everyone would be better off dead, although it's a hypothetical and he doesn't actually want to kill anyone.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
I have to say, I am consistently struck with the gender differences in self-reported experiences of depression on the internet.
It really reminds me of my mother, who, like Y's mother, brought kids into this world to validate her own depressed existence.
Of four, Im the only one who really got it bad as far as consistent long-term depression goes.
I love my mother, but I don't "understand" her decision the way Y apparently does.
I know that on some level I truly resent it.
Part of the resentment, Ive realized, is because of the different way I experience depression than her - for reasons of gender.
She is non-logical and amoral enough to have a bunch of kids to make herself feel warm and fuzzy for a few years while they are little and cute. Im not.
I always read these testimonials from "depressed" women on the internet, and they almost always have RELATIONSHIPS, or if not that always SEX LIVES. Someone mentioned before how often they have fucking reproduced themselves. SICKENING.
A depressed man is deeply repulsive to women, and is treated like an invisible piece of shit by them and most men.
Women still get their needs met, as long as they have a pulse.
I think Ive said enough."
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
This girl is poly. Flirt with her. If nothing else, it might be a fun date. :P
I shall, for my part, reflect ...
(Oooh, pun)
Seriously thinking though, I can bring up:
• are illusions 'due' or are we rightfully undoing wrongs?
• if the unfair distribution of happiness is an injustice, then is the forceful balancing out not justice?"
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
OK, so you've linked a lot of bizarre people, but this doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense to me. I thought they hated suffering? I thought that was the whole point and the supposed justification for all the rest?
And let me tell you another thing: I don't "love" animals; I don't even 'like' them. They have, unlike individual humans, NO redeeming qualities and I certainly cannot be bothered with that fuzzy feeling that you have for them. They mean nothing to me because they are devoid of meaning: they are but conduits of pain, fear and satisfaction; they might be similar to many humans, but they are nothing like me. And having to share spaces with either kind of vermin is a nuisance that impacts upon my whole unasked-for life in a definite negative sense.
And do not forget that we are in a world of hurt, to which animals are loyal servants; only humans can rise above their wholesome collaboration. And here is, where unlike speceisists, my mind goes out, not to "mankind" or some arbitrary chosen species near extinction, but only to those individuals who have not sold out to nature. It's only a matter of fact, that only humans, as part of the sole sapient species, are represented among these and that often human sell-outs will be 'collaterally' empathised with."
This.
He's vile, yes, but as far as we know he's little more than an Internet tough guy on a soap box. His posts are delusional, entirely absurd, and worthy only of contempt.
I'm not disputing he's scum. But when I see a post saying that somebody "needs to die" for a comment they posted on the Internet, forgive me if I think people are overreacting a wee bit.
for all we know the author might just be an autistic kid with depression living in his mom's basement"
@ Lazuli: Well, you did literally say you were being actual. :p
@ Lee: I was, but you edited it and I think you were going to do that anyway.
So yeah, guess I overreacted. We're all calm, everything's fine. :)