The beautiful landscapes of autumnal PA are stained by Trump signs

Odradek · 2016-11-04 19:04:34

Really bothers me

Sredni Vashtar · 2016-11-04 19:09:16

Same, although I don't get out enough to notice most often.

glennmagusharvey · 2016-11-04 19:11:37

I am left torn between a sympathy for people who feel left behind by modernity and a hatred for the worldview they have embraced.

Crystal · 2016-11-04 19:12:51

Ouch, sorry.

Salix Babylonika · 2016-11-04 19:20:49

same

Section42L · 2016-11-04 19:22:14

glennmagusharvey said:
I am left torn between a sympathy for people who feel left behind by modernity and a hatred for the worldview they have embraced.

Me too, honestly.

Hexartes · 2016-11-04 19:38:20

Plenty of people feel left behind without becoming bigots. If I have any sympathy for Trump voters it's of the most strained, distant kind. And it's because I know the kind of people they are because I deal with them on a regular basis.

Hexartes · 2016-11-04 19:39:02

You didn't see this outpouring of sympathy for Romney voters, even though there is something like 99 percent overlap.

Odradek · 2016-11-04 19:48:32

glennmagusharvey said:
I am left torn between a sympathy for people who feel left behind by modernity and a hatred for the worldview they have embraced.

These people are ugly mean-spirited fools who deserve to be left behind

Crystal · 2016-11-04 19:48:38

Kexruct said:
Plenty of people feel left behind without becoming bigots. If I have any sympathy for Trump voters it's of the most strained, distant kind. And it's because I know the kind of people they are because I deal with them on a regular basis.

Yeah this is familiar to me too.

Essentially a whole lot of complicated emotions, though the drive to eradicate malicious politics in our society pretty well overrides that in a sense.

Hexartes · 2016-11-04 19:55:32

I mean I might be more inclined to support the "working class Trump supporter" narrative if it was true, but it's not.

Sredni Vashtar · 2016-11-04 19:56:10

Kexruct said:
You didn't see this outpouring of sympathy for Romney voters, even though there is something like 99 percent overlap.

Not really? Obama won West Virginia. Latent neo-fascism and conservatism are slightly different things, and while the overlap is certainly strong, it's far from complete.

Odradek · 2016-11-04 19:59:56

The signs I saw are a toss up between pleasant looking houses on hills and houses that were clearly much cheaper

Hexartes · 2016-11-04 20:03:28

Point is, lifelong Republicans are gonna vote Republican. I don't see why they're especially worthy of sympathy now, unless people are arguing that these previously noncommittal neo-fascists that are coming out of the woodwork for Trump are the ones deserving of sympathy.

Odradek · 2016-11-04 20:07:02

Because the extremely out of touch thinkpieceurs who write about such things unconsciouslly assume working class people are too stupid to know what Trump really stands for

glennmagusharvey · 2016-11-04 20:08:50

See, on one hand I feel bad about how manufacturing and other blue-collar jobs have largely moved on from the US and left people without economic mobility, but on the other hand I want to slap people who express xenophobic and racist sentiments.

Salix Babylonika · 2016-11-04 20:10:08

I would feel much more conflicted on the subject if it were somehow impossible to both dislike that manufacturing jobs are moving overseas and also at the same time not be a horrible bigot.

Sredni Vashtar · 2016-11-04 20:12:01

^^^^ There are also gullible people who feel desperate because they are poor, isolated and undereducated. They don't make up as much of the share of the electorate as some people like to argue, and they're defined more by ignorance and social atomisation than their tax bracket; but pretending that they don't exist, or that only evil people turn to evil ideologies for evil reasons, is really just silly. Who makes the Nazis? It's not all people who start out thinking gassing "defectives" is a good idea.

^^ It's like what Odradek has said about Gamergate writ large in those instances. People with not much of a clue are very willing to buy into that sort of sinister magical thinking because it solves all of their problems, both external and internal.

Odradek · 2016-11-04 20:16:51

Jane said:
I would feel much more conflicted on the subject if it were somehow impossible to both dislike that manufacturing jobs are moving overseas and also at the same time not be a horrible bigot.

same

Actually I would like it if you could also believe that it's bad that manufacturing jobs are moving overseas and also that the minimum wage is so low

glennmagusharvey · 2016-11-04 20:17:06

Jane said:
I would feel much more conflicted on the subject if it were somehow impossible to both dislike that manufacturing jobs are moving overseas and also at the same time not be a horrible bigot.

Well see my "conflict" is more so that on one hand I want to sit down and really get to understand their perspective and hear their story from beginning to end, but on the other hand I hate this xenophobic attitude enough that I find it tempting to opine in ways that deliberately antagonize/insult this attitude (imagine, for example, taking a bunch of Gadsden flags (i.e. the "don't tread on me" flags that tea-partiers like, a design that I know originated in earlier period in American history, yeah yeah, whatever, they still have a current meaning to them), crumpling them up, and using them to build a mini Statue of Liberty with the caption "REFUGEES WELCOME, ANTI-IMMIGRANT FUCKNUTS CAN SHOVE IT").

And I know that this sort of antagonizing people is unproductive so it's the rational side of me holding the emotional side of me in check.

Hexartes · 2016-11-04 20:18:15

Sredni Vashtar said:
^^^^ There are also gullible people who feel desperate because they are poor, isolated and undereducated. They don't make up as much of the share of the electorate as some people like to argue, and they're defined more by ignorance and social atomisation than their tax bracket; but pretending that they don't exist, or that only evil people turn to evil ideologies for evil reasons, is really just silly. Who makes the Nazis? It's not all people who start out thinking gassing "defectives" is a good idea.

^^ It's like what Odradek has said about Gamergate writ large in those instances. People with not much of a clue are very willing to buy into that sort of sinister magical thinking because it solves all of their problems, both external and internal.

I have some strained, condescending compassion for people who are angry that they don't have all the privileges they were promised, but that's all I can offer.

Hexartes · 2016-11-04 20:21:19

But there's this fundamental misunderstanding that "the average Trump voter" feels this way. At least according to this Vox study, that's not true.

http://www.vox.com/2016/9/19/12933072/far-right-white-riot-trump-brexit

Salix Babylonika · 2016-11-04 20:34:19

In my experience the two kinds of Trump voters are the ones who have a lot of holiday decorations and the ones who have Confederate flags draped on their houses.

Aliroz · 2016-11-05 02:56:58

What is, is, and I have no more to contribute to this conversation.

Klinotaxis · 2016-11-05 03:00:21

in case y'all forget A = A ok peace out fuckers

Sredni Vashtar · 2016-11-05 03:17:09

Kexruct said:
But there's this fundamental misunderstanding that "the average Trump voter" feels this way. At least according to this Vox study, that's not true.

http://www.vox.com/2016/9/19/12933072/far-right-white-riot-trump-brexit

I'm well aware of how Trump mirrors the European far right in his message and methods. Why else do you think I bring up neo-fascism so much? He's basically an Americanised Le Pen, or maybe Berlusconi with even a scarier racist aspect (albeit roughly the same sort of kleptocratic chauvinist in other areas). Nor do I think that the majority of Tump voters are actually disenfranchised. Most are either diehard Republicans who refuse to break rank or demented reactionaries. But I wouldn't be surprised if a decent-sized contingent of the latter began as merely ignorant, lonely, disconnected and angry—addled by a lack of access to decent education, any real sense of community outside of dying religious institutions, and a misplaced sense of entitlement despite all that which has fuelled a frightening turn inward and against modernity. Because that's how fascism happens. People don't lath onto kooky racist ideas for no reason. Hatred is far simpler and easier when it's a convenient excuse for a far more complicated problem that may implicate the person who has it or, worse yet, have no satisfactory singular cause or solution.

I obviously think that none of this is a good thing, nor am I going to blame this wholesale on The Liberals or whatever the fuck, but I think you can recognise, at the very least, that depression doesn't always make people more empathetic, and a lack of reflection in that area can be extremely dangerous.

Alduin · 2016-11-05 04:10:26

Section42L said:

glennmagusharvey said:
I am left torn between a sympathy for people who feel left behind by modernity and a hatred for the worldview they have embraced.
Me too, honestly.

same

Hexartes · 2016-11-05 04:35:38

Look, I will always have sympathy for the people who think they've been left behind. But those people have always been around. Why is now treated like such a special time to care about them? It all reads very weird, it's like, we have this huge resurgence in virulently fascist, racist ideology and now's the time to be sympathetic to the poor uneducated whites? I mean, I don't even consider them a particularly relevant part of the Trump conversation. It seems like a deflection tactic.

Imipolex G · 2016-11-05 04:39:42

can this election please be over please

I am tired of this crap

Hexartes · 2016-11-05 04:45:15

Kexruct said:
Look, I will always have sympathy for the people who think they've been left behind. But those people have always been around. Why is now treated like such a special time to care about them? It all reads very weird, it's like, we have this huge resurgence in virulently fascist, racist ideology and now's the time to be sympathetic to the poor uneducated whites? I mean, I don't even consider them a particularly relevant part of the Trump conversation. It seems like a deflection tactic.

Clarification: I don't consider them relevant external to their status as being white. Whiteness is a very relevant factor in this election.

lee4hmz · 2016-11-06 04:51:06

Around here, there's a boat place that has a "My employees built this from the ground up" sign (apparently Obama pissed someone off with the "You didn't build that" thing), and true to form, there's a huge fucking Trump sign in front of the business. It drives me nuts.

Also, one of the big landowners here is a devout Republican, and there are always signs for (R) candidates at the corner of Prince William Parkway and Minnieville Road every election season.

The beautiful landscapes of autumnal PA are stained by Trump signs

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