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Is magic power or energy?

Princess AlicePrincess Alice
in General
I need to know whether I should be reporting my abilities in joules or watts. :|
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  • glennmagusharveyglennmagusharvey
    power is just energy output per unit time anyway
  • Sredni VashtarSredni Vashtar
    “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Power. It's a transfer of energy in a way that appears to defy conservation thereof or otherwise play havoc with space-time and The Rules.
  • KlinotaxisKlinotaxis
    kill living beings
    it's actually statcoulomb-pascals per bit
  • FossilmaidenFossilmaiden
    image Wee yea erra chs hymmnos mea.
    Lux.
  • Princess AlicePrincess Alice
    You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    Sredni Vashtar said:

    Power. It's a transfer of energy in a way that appears to defy conservation thereof or otherwise play havoc with space-time and The Rules.

    That...actually makes sense.
  • glennmagusharveyglennmagusharvey
    if you're presuming that the energy comes from somewhere else, then magical ability is the transfer of that energy in defiance of normal rules

    if you're presuming that the energy springs into being, then magical ability could make sense as a total count of magical energy or a count of magical energy output per unit time
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    Sredni Vashtar said:

    Power. It's a transfer of energy in a way that appears to defy conservation thereof or otherwise play havoc with space-time and The Rules.

    This, but also, magic follows different rules. Narrativium or something like that. 
  • Sredni VashtarSredni Vashtar
    “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    CentralAvenue said:

    Sredni Vashtar said:

    Power. It's a transfer of energy in a way that appears to defy conservation thereof or otherwise play havoc with space-time and The Rules.

    That...actually makes sense.
    That's how I tend to treat magic in whatever I write.
    MadassAlex said:

    Sredni Vashtar said:

    Power. It's a transfer of energy in a way that appears to defy conservation thereof or otherwise play havoc with space-time and The Rules.

    This, but also, magic follows different rules. Narrativium or something like that. 
    Usually, although the rules in question may be unknown or otherwise mysterious.
  • CalicaCalica
    Sup bitches, witches, Haters, and trolls.
    it could also be like voltage/current/etc except with its own set of units
  • Sredni VashtarSredni Vashtar
    “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Too scientific and I think it begins to lose its essential unpredictability and arse-biting potential when "efficiently" harnessed.
  • glennmagusharveyglennmagusharvey
    Sredni Vashtar said:

    Too scientific and I think it begins to lose its essential unpredictability and arse-biting potential when "efficiently" harnessed.

    alternatively it could be something that manifests differently depending on the person
  • glennmagusharveyglennmagusharvey
    edited 2016-04-24 03:44:37
    like if the person has a hot-headed personality they may have fire magic, if the person really enjoys swimming a lot they may have water magic, and if the person specifically tries to study magic itself they may just end up with a special set of non-elemental spells

    so they all work a little differently
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    Sredni Vashtar said:

    CentralAvenue said:

    Sredni Vashtar said:

    Usually, although the rules in question may be unknown or otherwise mysterious.

    Ah, I was more referencing how magic follows thematic rules moreso than technical ones. Which is why things happen on the night of the full moon, or require the blood of innocents, or include the fibre of a wilted rose. And so on. 
  • HavenHaven
    Let me tell you. About Fallen London.
    For magic as a whole: how would you measure the scientific method? Can you weigh formal logic, or calculate the refractive index of zen gardening?

    For your abilities specifically? HORSEPOWER.
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    Haven said:

    For magic as a whole: how would you measure the scientific method? Can you weigh formal logic, or calculate the refractive index of zen gardening?

    That's kinda the thing. Once too much is objectively measureable, an art's status as "magic" is at risk, because it follows some kind of physical law rather than thematic rules.
  • Princess AlicePrincess Alice
    You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    Haven said:

    For your abilities specifically? HORSEPOWER.
    ...

    ...

    ...

    Yes.
  • TanyaTanya
    Pizza Dog
    Magic is actually neither a power nor an energy.

    Certainly it involves to a certain degree power and energy, but magic is actually more akin to a study.

    For instance, think about electricians for a moment, certainly their job involves a lot of electricity but you wouldn't frame electronics about electricity would you? 

    Magic is a field of study, It's the principals through which we understand the unusual and the often bizarre.
  • KlinotaxisKlinotaxis
    kill living beings
    i kinda like the idea of doing like voltage. the thing about voltage is that it's related to a vector field. every point in space is associated with an electric field strength, but also an electric field direction. you can measure the voltage between two points by picking a line between them and integrating the field, and in some cases you can talk about "the voltage of a point" by picking a reference point and measuring the voltage from there; but sometimes (actually always irl) the field will have loops in it which screws up the integration and affects the forces by adding magnetism.

    this is all very confusing and unintuitive to everybody, but it looks pretty if you can draw a representation of the invisible fields. perfect for magic, i say. just make it a bit more ambiguous how magical field strength corresponds to physical force and it's fine
  • KlinotaxisKlinotaxis
    kill living beings
    i mean, i think "the magic field lines here are strong enough for the ritual, start drawing the sigils according to our research" and "a stray dog died here two years ago, so the ritual will work, start stripping branches and chanting" are both fine kinds of magic, and pretty mysterious in their own ways
  • glennmagusharveyglennmagusharvey
    edited 2016-04-24 17:41:44
    MadassAlex said:

    Haven said:

    For magic as a whole: how would you measure the scientific method? Can you weigh formal logic, or calculate the refractive index of zen gardening?

    That's kinda the thing. Once too much is objectively measureable, an art's status as "magic" is at risk, because it follows some kind of physical law rather than thematic rules.
    Not necessarily -- you can simply make it follow rules of meaning (I presume this is what you mean by "thematic").

    For example, drawing apples on paper then chanting over them with special candles or something can produce apples for consumption, because you wished for apples.

    Still magical -- defies the laws of physics.  Still follows rules.  If you drew pears you'd get pears instead.  If you drew gold bars, you may or may not get anything, because this magic is following meaning, and this spell works to generate food, but doesn't work to generate value.

    Now, if you're saying, if there's some other creature out there that uses gold as food, it might work for them, but then they'd eat the gold bars.  That said, if you can prevent them from eating the gold bars, you might have found a loophole by which tabletop gamers exploit systems and destroy local economies and cause peasants to shoot things at the speed of light.  Congrats.
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