What would Donald Trump do without Fox News?

Anonus

I have to imagine his campaign in a world without Fox News

Calica

he'd have to find some other female anchor to claim was on her period

Anonus

It had better not be Robin Roberts >_>

Sredni Vashtar

He would just use whatever other right-wing platform he could either exploit or spar with.

Odradek

I have given up all hope for this world. It will just spiral towards mad fascism and collapse. It's selfish, but I hope I don't live to see the worst.

Sredni Vashtar

Trump will burn out hard and it will be highly entertaining watching him do it. In the process, he will bring all the worst people out of the woodwork so we may revile and shame them publically.

Salix Babylonika

i don't know, man.

i'd like to think that 

Obā-san

it doesnt get worse, it just changes into new, stranger sorts of bad

Sredni Vashtar

My boyfriend speaks the truth.

Also, someone in the New Yorker—which incidentally ran a great piece about his following among white supremacists—made the interesting observation that where Bernie Sanders is the inheritor of the mantle of the Debs/Thomas school of equity-driven left-wing populism, Trump is one of the few examples post-Huey Long of a strongman populist.

Tachyon

i was thinking the other day, you know the bit in Homestuck where Insane Clown Posse are elected as president (both of them) and the entire country goes to hell?

Well, if at the time, Hussie had made that joke, but instead of ICP the joke had been that Donald Trump was elected president, i think it would have found it about as funny, and thought it was about as absurd, for most of the same reasons, no exaggeration.

That's how surreal this campaign is to me.

Salix Babylonika

which is weird cuz Trump's like a multimillionaire.

I'm sure Bernie Sanders is not exactly strapped for cash either, but being rich is all Trump's known for, which is why it's so crazy to me that anyone would even consider voting for him.

My not-grandmother gave the explanation that he's "honest" and "knows how to run a business"

shrug

Tachyon

She's not wrong.

But a country isn't the same as a business, and i'm not sure why so many people haven't grasped this.

Tachyon

Also, my impression is that populism is less about economic class and more about voicing popular opinion and coming from outside the established political elite.

Salix Babylonika

of course not-grandma was also an heiress

and I think that something that Trump has that speaks to people on an unconscious level is, there's a certain kind of person who really wants to be Donald Trump.

Not just in his position, mind you, wanting to be rich is understandable, but they want to be in his position and also act that arrogantly and be able to just brush it off because they're too rich to care.

Sredni Vashtar

He's actually a pretty middling businessman. Getting his show on the air was probably his savviest decision in years at that point. And if we mean to discuss honesty, let's get real here: If we go by campaign donations, Trump comes off as a moderate Democrat. That he uses nationalistic, sometimes outright racist language and bizarre authoritarian rhetoric belies this fact, but the man was up until recently a huge fan of single-payer healthcare. Honest? Maybe, but not consistent.

Salix Babylonika

Sredni Vashtar said:

He's actually a pretty middling businessman. Getting his show on the air was probably his savviest decision in years at that point. And if we mean to discuss honesty, let's get real here: If we go by campaign donations, Trump comes off as a moderate Democrat. That he uses nationalistic, sometimes outright racist language and bizarre authoritarian rhetoric belies this fact, but the man was up until recently a huge fan of single-payer healthcare. Honest? Maybe, but not consistent.

I'm sorry?

I don't understand how Trump is a Democrat unless you mean the word in some other sense.

Anonus

I kind of want to (though my billionaire persona is based more on Ted Turner than Donald Trump)

Anonus

Also, http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/23/business/yourmoney/whats-he-really-worth.html?_r=0 (mind the free article limit)

Salix Babylonika

but why?

I have no idea what anyone finds appealing about being like that.

The man is an asshole, he is not likable in the least.

Sredni Vashtar

queenpoison said:

Sredni Vashtar said:

He's actually a pretty middling businessman. Getting his show on the air was probably his savviest decision in years at that point. And if we mean to discuss honesty, let's get real here: If we go by campaign donations, Trump comes off as a moderate Democrat. That he uses nationalistic, sometimes outright racist language and bizarre authoritarian rhetoric belies this fact, but the man was up until recently a huge fan of single-payer healthcare. Honest? Maybe, but not consistent.

I'm sorry?

I don't understand how Trump is a Democrat unless you mean the word in some other sense.

An actual Democrat, as in funnelling money into Chuck Schumer and Hilary Clinton's Senate campaigns by the bucketload and, again, running ads in support of single-payer healthcare and (get this) the liberalisation of immigration laws.

Tachyon

Yeah, he seems very unappealing to me and i'm not sure why anyone would like to be him.

i'm guessing people who share his attitudes and would like to have his wealth as well.

Tachyon

Sredni Vashtar said:

queenpoison said:

Sredni Vashtar said:

He's actually a pretty middling businessman. Getting his show on the air was probably his savviest decision in years at that point. And if we mean to discuss honesty, let's get real here: If we go by campaign donations, Trump comes off as a moderate Democrat. That he uses nationalistic, sometimes outright racist language and bizarre authoritarian rhetoric belies this fact, but the man was up until recently a huge fan of single-payer healthcare. Honest? Maybe, but not consistent.

I'm sorry?

I don't understand how Trump is a Democrat unless you mean the word in some other sense.

An actual Democrat, as in funnelling money into Chuck Schumer and Hilary Clinton's Senate campaigns by the bucketload and, again, running ads in support of single-payer healthcare and (get this) the liberalisation of immigration laws.

Clearly his running is a stunt to make the Republicans unelectable in the hope of giving Clinton an easy victory!

(i don't actually think this)

Anonus

queenpoison said:

but why?

I have no idea what anyone finds appealing about being like that.

The man is an asshole, he is not likable in the least.

Because I want to like ride around in tanks and shit bumping the tank's turret against the building of my competitors and force them to stare at my majesty

Anonus

that's what I'd do if I were rich in between business stuff

Bee

I'm sorry?

I don't understand how Trump is a Democrat unless you mean the word in some other sense.

Up until the last few years much of his policy was distressingly moderate for as batshit insane as he is on other platforms.  Right now he's basically just aiming for the lowest common denominator of the base for the sake of limelight stunts.

Like, he's been on the record in the past supporting:

- abortion rights

- legalizing drugs

- universal healthcare

- taxes on the rich

- staying out of wars

- assault weapon bans and waiting periods on purchasing guns

- Hillary Clinton (!)

- was a Democrat in 2001 (!!!)

Sredni Vashtar

Tachyon said:

Sredni Vashtar said:

queenpoison said:

Sredni Vashtar said:

He's actually a pretty middling businessman. Getting his show on the air was probably his savviest decision in years at that point. And if we mean to discuss honesty, let's get real here: If we go by campaign donations, Trump comes off as a moderate Democrat. That he uses nationalistic, sometimes outright racist language and bizarre authoritarian rhetoric belies this fact, but the man was up until recently a huge fan of single-payer healthcare. Honest? Maybe, but not consistent.

I'm sorry?

I don't understand how Trump is a Democrat unless you mean the word in some other sense.

An actual Democrat, as in funnelling money into Chuck Schumer and Hilary Clinton's Senate campaigns by the bucketload and, again, running ads in support of single-payer healthcare and (get this) the liberalisation of immigration laws.

Clearly his running is a stunt to make the Republicans unelectable in the hope of giving Clinton an easy victory!

(i don't actually think this)

I honestly have no idea what his deal actually is. He used the same rhetoric about Japan in the 80s as he does with Mexico now in a different context, so that's not new, but I think running as a Republican is primarily a matter of opportunism. He wants to be even more famous than he already is and running for president of the US is one hell of a vehicle; that he can seize on the moment more easily by riling the kooks is almost a coincidence.

Princess Alice

I just kind of assumed Trump's campaign was a vanity thing

He's not going to end up anywhere near the Oval Office, so what does he have to gain besides a LOT of attention?

Salix Babylonika

Bee said:

I'm sorry?

I don't understand how Trump is a Democrat unless you mean the word in some other sense.

Up until the last few years much of his policy was distressingly moderate for as batshit insane as he is on other platforms.  Right now he's basically just aiming for the lowest common denominator of the base for the sake of limelight stunts.

Like, he's been on the record in the past supporting:

- abortion rights

- legalizing drugs

- universal healthcare

- taxes on the rich

- staying out of wars

- assault weapon bans and waiting periods on purchasing guns

- Hillary Clinton (!)

- was a Democrat in 2001 (!!!)

what is life anyway

Haven

You know, that's what I thought until he lost his contracts with Univision and ABC and just kept doubling down. 

Some people are just blind to the possibility of failure--Romney didn't even have a concession speech written, remember.

Obā-san

i think he's just having fun with it

seeing how much he can push it

like, at this point he's sunk enough into it that sinking more into it aint a big deal?

Section42L

Well, he doesn't have anywhere near as much money as he claims, so it's unlikely he'll be able to sink enough into it for a Presidental run if he doesn't get the Republican nomination.

Obā-san

i know he doesnt, im speaking of like social capital

Sredni Vashtar

naney said:

i think he's just having fun with it

seeing how much he can push it

like, at this point he's sunk enough into it that sinking more into it aint a big deal?

Yeah, he seems to be having fun just stirring the pot.

Aliroz

Trump believes only in that which believing in will get him support/attention/money.

If actually chosen as the republican nominee, I think he will quit.  

He wants to run for president, not be president.

Sredni Vashtar

You are probably right, although he might keep running if he gets the nomination. The question is whether it will be any sort of real contest.

Section42L

The problem is that if he were to not accept the nomination, he would be deemed a quitter by his own logic.

If he gets nominated, he's basically trapped himself into having to run. It will be quite fun to watch.

Salix Babylonika

you guys keep talking about "fun" but I'm (irrationally?) concerned that the amount of people thinking this is funny is betraying a very serious issue: namely that a despicable wretch of a human being, far moreso than most other presidential candidates, is about two (admittedly difficult) steps away from the White House.

Ask yourself what a Trump presidency would actually entail.

Sredni Vashtar

That assumes that he could ever gain more than a quarter of the electorate in this sad, sorry country. If forced to choose between him and Clinton or even Sanders, it will be the latter choice or some third-party contender. Trump has a weird sort of charisma, but little else.

Salix Babylonika

i dunno

maybe I just way overestimate how conservative this country on the whole is but all I hear for him around here (even among seemingly rational people) is rote praise.

usually for being "ballsy" or "honest" or whatever else.

Obā-san

the Trump presidency literally could not occur

he is two steps away from the white house, but those aren't steps he can take

Section42L

This is probably irresponsible of me to think, but I will actually be almost glad if it ends up being Trump vs. Sanders, because that will at least be a reasonably honest picture of the country.

Sredni Vashtar

If that happens, it may well wind up, as I implied, turning into a three-way or even four-way race to make up for the positions being left out of the equation. Trump's economics are unsatisfying in equal measure to the left and right, so the likelihood of the emergence of a right-libertarian candidate like Johnson to fill the gap increases.

Section42L

Who would the centre-left candidate be in this scenario?

The only realistic candidate I can see would be Biden, and I'm not sure if he'd actually want to run.

Sredni Vashtar

Should Clinton drop out, I feel that Sanders has too much momentum behind him not to take the better part of the American Left with him. For the most part, the Democratic Party is not so much a centre-left party per se as a centrist party whose basic peripheral range is from moderately conservative to, well, where Sanders is, which is somewhat to the right of someone like Jeremy Corbyn but pretty far left for America. But strong progressive ideals with a practical bent hold a lot of power in the American psyche right now.

Alduin

queenpoison said:

which is weird cuz Trump's like a multimillionaire.

I'm sure Bernie Sanders is not exactly strapped for cash either, but being rich is all Trump's known for, which is why it's so crazy to me that anyone would even consider voting for him.

My not-grandmother gave the explanation that he's "honest" and "knows how to run a business"

shrug

Donald Trump is a terrible businessman

Section42L

Sredni Vashtar said:

Should Clinton drop out, I feel that Sanders has too much momentum behind him not to take the better part of the American Left with him. For the most part, the Democratic Party is not so much a centre-left party per se as a centrist party whose basic peripheral range is from moderately conservative to, well, where Sanders is, which is somewhat to the right of someone like Jeremy Corbyn but pretty far left for America. But strong progressive ideals with a practical bent hold a lot of power in the American psyche right now.

Yeah, very true.

Unfortunately, the ideas Trump has backed also hold a lot of power among certain parts of the American psyche.

Sredni Vashtar

But the thing is, most of them are negative and only have his willpower given as the ultimate solution. Sanders offers solutions to the problems he presents that empower the common people rather than a singular strongman, which is honestly a way more American way of doing things.

Section42L

I'm very much agreed with that. The problem is that the sort of people Sanders' policies would help the most are the same people who think that Trump will save them. How can we get around that?

Princess Alice

One thing I find darkly amusing is that Huckabee is bending over backwards in increasingly desperate attempts to pander to the far right (to the point of pretending he would fail elementary school civics), but meanwhile Trump has those same people adoring him just by making an ass of himself.

Sredni Vashtar

^^ Coalition-building and, more generally, just letting Bernie be Bernie.

^ Huckabee is just gross.

Section42L

Huckabee has a modicum of shame, so it's easy to tell when he's forcing himself to say stuff that he doesn't actually believe.

Trump is utterly shameless, so he can get away with saying just about anything.