I will never forgive Nintendo

Odradek

They had the greatness of 2d, but ruined it for a fairy with a mildly annoying voice clip, thus FOREVER destroying the series.

Obā-san

man usually i know what these threads are about but im fuckin stumped here

Sredni Vashtar

People bitching about the 3D Zelda games.

Odradek

naney said:

man usually i know what these threads are about but im fuckin stumped here

This is basically what all people who hate 3D Zelda are saying.

Obā-san

man i have that zelda link to the whatever 3DS remake doodley dodad now

Anonus

As someone who grew up with 3D games, it was always bizarre to see people objectively saying that 3D games were awkward and different and thus not good

Imipolex G

HEY!

LISTEN!

Odradek

Megszentségteleníthetetlenségeskedéseitekért said:

HEY!

LISTEN!

I have heard that voice clip a whole THREE TIMES in this 15 hour game. Enough is enough, nintendorks!

Obā-san

man i really should sell that thing

Odradek

naney said:

man i really should sell that thing

Good, because they BETRAYED videogames

Anonus

Allow me to kvetch about how people think Super Mario Sunshine was a subpar game

I always did prefer it to 64, in part because the world felt more immersive and developed

64 is a decent game, but in hindsight it feels like a prototype

It's always weird when nerds say things are "disappointing" - I don't know what they WANT from them

COLORFUL MOHI

Disappointing = this was not literally the greatest game i've ever played / album i've ever heard / movie i've ever seen / show i've ever watched and i don't know how to have realistic expectations

the term is rarely used accurately.

Yarrun XIX

inb4 that one comic by that one terrible artist

Imipolex G

A Link to the Past is my favorite Zelda game, though, in all seriousness

eriophora zia

People didn't like Super Mario Sunshine? I kind of assumed it was accepted overall that it was awesome. I knew it had a lot of initial criticism, but I feel like it's one of those games that people have realized they've liked after it had been out a few years - sort of like Windwaker. 

Agreed on A Link to the Past, also. It's my favorite top-down 2D Zelda game. Majora's Mask is my favorite 3D one, though. Er, 3D as in models being 3D and stuff, not as in 3D like the 3DS and such. 

I was also really partial to The Minish Cap, though, which is an absolutely adorable game. The Picori are really cool characters (not to mention that they're SUPER CUTE), and fusing the stone things to unlock new areas was an interesting way to keep you wanting to return to old places. It was a really vibrant world with a lot of change as you progressed. It really had the exploration and puzzle-solving element down pat.

Calica

sega does what nintendon't

Imipolex G

such as stop making consoles altogether

glennmagusharvey

nintendo has what segasn't

Hexartes

Man, I have many things to say about Zelda but so little connecting fiber between my ideas. I suppose that's kind of important.

A Link to the Past and Adventure of Link are the two Zelda games that aged the worst (the former simply seems very thin compared to pretty much every entry in the series, even the first, and the latter lacked the polish that was one of Nintendo's strong suits back in the day), the Oracle duo suffered heavily from having been developed by Capcom, Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks were tight but didn't really toy with series conventions in a meaningful way (which is pretty strange for a series more or less founded on toying with its own iconography), and A Link Between Worlds was basically a better version of A Link to the Past but still felt bare.

All of them are good though.

Klinotaxis

the link to the past remake was the first Zelda game I played. it has the block gun thing, so I got no complaints.

Hexartes

Positives!

The original Zelda was a masterfully atmospheric game. Really, I think that was the secret ingredient to its success. Every sound, every color palette, and just the feel of using an item felt just suited to the game experience. Some aspects of its design could have been improved (mainly the inconsistent pretense of nonlinearity, by which I mean the way progress was nonlinear in some ways while barred in others with no logical reason for going between linear and open structure). Zelda II still feels like a hell of an adventure, and the action-RPG mechanics hold up very well today. 2D segments also look really nice; shame the overworld looks and feels like shit. A Link to the Past and A Link Between Worlds had really nice progression. Link's Awakening was astonishingly poignant, especially considering how scarcely the series tried emotional moments even after that point. Ocarina of Time may not have been mechanically perfect but felt like an adventure through-and-through and again made excellent use of atmosphere.* Majora's Mask has been talked about incessantly and I don't have anything to add to that conversation. The Oracle games are still probably the 2D games with the most content, rivaled by MAYBE Minish Cap. Wind Waker was pure joy to play, and had a genuinely interesting plot even if it was somewhat confusing in hindsight. Minish Cap felt like it was bursting at the seams, and the Minish added a fun twist to the dual-world theme of the series. The Four Swords games are a damn riot to play with friends. Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword had much more involved, interesting plots than their predecessors, and the latter played with the established conventions in a mostly successful way. Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks were very tight and well designed even if they were unremarkable.

I'm a damn nerd.

COLORFUL MOHI

hey Kexruct you're an enormous Zelda nerd so maybe you'd know this

you know that "it's dangerous to go alone" bit? Has anyone ever like, done a fan-reading of the game or made a video or something where that is said aloud?

I need it for reasons.

Hexartes

Huh, no, I wouldn't know anything about that.

Hell, I could record it if you want?

COLORFUL MOHI

nah that's OK

Imipolex G

I have no idea why anyone would consider A Link to the Past to be "thin"

Crystal

I don't care for the Zelda games, but Kexruct, regrettably, makes me want to play them. In due time, certainly...

Hexartes

Megszentségteleníthetetlenségeskedéseitekért said:

I have no idea why anyone would consider A Link to the Past to be "thin"

I preface this with the fact that I love every game in the series, ALttP included.

But the game felt passive. Essentially all of the skills the game requires you to know are learned by the third dungeon, which is about two hours in. After that it becomes a game of poking into corners and using the same skills learned in the beginning without really building or expanding on them. It was essentially a matter of the player's ethos remaining rather stagnant over the course of the game, not helped by the more difficult moments being moments where the player has essentially just hit a wall and has to stumble onto the right thing to do.

COLORFUL MOHI

There's a lot of games like that.

Anyway, I have tried to get into the Zelda series multiple times and the gameplay just doesn't hold my attention for whatever reason.

Odradek

Skyward Sword had oodles of charm.

I understand what people didn't like about it, but I maintain.

Oodles

Imipolex G

I dunno man, I thought ALttP built up pretty admirably over the course of the game. It's not until later that you get things like the hookshot and the block gun thing, for instance.

Maybe I just don't expect as much from a game. I'm fine with my ethos remaining the same

Hexartes

Eh, saying it didn't build at all is a mite unfair.

The hookshot and the cane were both really cool. I almost wish the game had less items so it'd spend more time to let the player explore the possibilities of them. Zelda could learn a lot from Portal. 

One-Armed MIKE said:

Skyward Sword had oodles of charm.

I understand what people didn't like about it, but I maintain.

Oodles

Agreed.

COLORFUL MOHI

DARK METAMORPHOSIS said:

Zelda could learn a lot from Portal. 

Somewhere right now, someone who thinks that "they don't make good video games anymore" is so angry, but they know not why.

Odradek

Countess Jo said:

DARK METAMORPHOSIS said:

Zelda could learn a lot from Portal. 

Somewhere right now, someone who thinks that "they don't make good video games anymore" is so angry, but they know not why.

Prolly Icycalm

he would

Hexartes

At least, some of them could. I could divide the Zelda games in three camps based on why they're engaging: The first would consist of the two NES titles, the second would consists of ALttP, LA, OoA, OoS, MC, PH, ST and ALBW, and the third would consist of OoT, MM, WW, TP, and SS. In broad terms the first camp were primarily focused on skillful combat and a bit of exploration, along with understanding patterns in game mechanics, e.g. there is only ever one hidden door per wall in a dungeon, the second camp focuses on solving explicitly gamey puzzles and exploring the use of items, and the final focuses on environmental puzzles and uses items interchangeably as keys and aides to puzzle solving, with slight emphasis on using more than one at once.

The lines can be a bit blurred but I'd say that's how they're split, more or less. 

nohaynicklibre

Hey Kex, have you played Okami?

Odradek

Okami's a good game.

Hexartes

No, because I'm terrible and I have reference pools in every medium whose size could be described as puddle-esque.

nohaynicklibre

If you like Zeldaesque games I'd recommend it, it's top notch

Hexartes

Duly noted.

COLORFUL MOHI

but also play Anodyne

glennmagusharvey

Countess Jo said:

but also play Anodyne

That game is fantastic.

Yarrun XIX

Virginia said:

Countess Jo said:

but also play Anodyne

That game is fantastic.

I have recommended that already, haven't I?

If not, then here is my recommendation. All of you should play it

And not be afraid to ask about that one bit near the end, because let's be honest, it's kind of tricky.

COLORFUL MOHI

Anodyne is the only game to ever pull off the "it was all a dream" cliche well

because you never wake up.

Yarrun XIX

Arguably, it's less of a dream and more of a delusion, but yes, you right.

COLORFUL MOHI

There's evidence for various sub-interpretations among that, but the general consensus is that Young is having a dream of some kind. Whether it's an actual sleep dream, a dying dream, hallucinations brought on by any number of causes, etc. is the disputable part. That game packs more symbolism per square inch than some French films.

glennmagusharvey

I think I didn't even bother trying to interpret it logically, and just took in the atmosphere.  I chalked it up to being symbolic.

Sredni Vashtar

Countess Jo said:

Disappointing = this was not literally the greatest game i've ever played / album i've ever heard / movie i've ever seen / show i've ever watched and i don't know how to have realistic expectations

the term is rarely used accurately.

I think it's more that certain people have expectations that actually have nothing to do with quality per se and frequently make little sense for the subject of those expectations—comparing apples to oranges, as it were—and treat those expectations like actual standards. Which is to say it is inaccurate not because the expectations are irrationally high, but that they think that they are playing a different game.

Example: My Father Will Guide Me Up A Rope To The Sky, Swans' first comeback record, is good but not very cohesive, and the production, while lovely, frequently works against the material. A lot of people were disappointed because it did not resemble Swans' older material so much as it did Gira's last project, Angels of Light; to my mind, this is not a very fair expectation, although being disappointed because it is a weaker effort than those last two Angels of Light albums despite having an equally strong line-up and some great songs certainly is.

Obā-san

i first heard about swans from a wee review of that record in the back of some street rag i picked up

Yarrun XIX

Man, screw making sense of the symbolism.

You know what's fun? Sailing around on dust clouds and messing with anti-natalists.

glennmagusharvey

I generally liked the ambient nature of Anodyne.

Section42L

^^^^ Other than parts of The Great Annhilator, I don't believe he's done anything that isn't sonically or thematically related to The Angels of Light since 1987, so I don't get where that expectation comes from.