Zoe Quinn: The Full Story

Hexartes

Woman has gall to be female and in gaming industry.

Makes game. Antifeminists don't like game, because woman.

Antifeminists band with ex boyfriend of woman and spread rumors that woman cheats and fucks her way to a good review, because women, amirite

People take it seriously because refer to first sentence

Yarrun XIX

She made Depression Quest.

She has a chip in her hand that can store game codes.

I honestly don't understand how the internet can not like her, even the part that can't stand women doing anything nerdy.

Obā-san

you know im kinda in a weird place in regards to the things that nerdy people in general are interested in

because when i was younger i really wanted to be involved in these things but i couldn’t, i wanted to watch anime but i had dial-up up until late into high school and no way to rent things, i wanted to play video games but i had a lousy computer and couldn’t afford them anyways, i was too awkward to make friends with the nerdy people at school, ect.

and now i’m an adult and i have my own money and i’m not as awkward as i was and I can finally get involved with these things and

Hexartes

Because she's a female in a male dominated industry, and "woman uses feminine wiles to seduce totally innocent men" is a remarkably easy narrative to buy into.

FYI I don't care if she did cheat on her ex-boyfriend. That's no one's business but those involved, and it would not have been even an inkling of an issue or even have been brought to light if she wasn't a female people wanted to hate.

Hexartes

As always this wouldn't be half as annoying if my friends weren't buying into it.

And again, THIS IS NO ONE'S BUSINESS. Her ex is an infinitely worse person for airing this shit out in public.

nohaynicklibre

Obā-san

i just

i

this is not something that happens amongst functional human beings

Obā-san

fuck nerds

glennmagusharvey

naney said:

you know im kinda in a weird place in regards to the things that nerdy people in general are interested in

because when i was younger i really wanted to be involved in these things but i couldn’t, i wanted to watch anime but i had dial-up up until late into high school and no way to rent things, i wanted to play video games but i had a lousy computer and couldn’t afford them anyways, i was too awkward to make friends with the nerdy people at school, ect.

and now i’m an adult and i have my own money and i’m not as awkward as i was and I can finally get involved with these things and

Sredni Vashtar

naney said:

i just

i

this is not something that happens amongst functional human beings

It does, but in different contexts.

Or rather, it's not just nerds/geeks who aren't functional. It's just that they're more insular and blatant.

glennmagusharvey

also, we're just hearing about it because it's happening in our little subcommunity of the web

Hexartes

Like, I've seen evidence that she did cheat, but, like, whose fucking business is that???

Is that an unreasonable question to ask? Is an ex airing out his dirty laundry any better? Especially when the woman in question has a history of being harassed? Especially when there's no way he couldn't have known?

I'm at a loss. These are otherwise 100% reasonable people going along with this.

Obā-san

Sredni Vashtar said:

naney said:

i just

i

this is not something that happens amongst functional human beings

It does, but in different contexts.

naney said:

functional

glennmagusharvey

no, it's more like

> implying that people don't normally have shady tactics to get good reviews anyway
> implying that this is in any way abnormal
> implying that game reviews are worth anything in the first place, period, when they're from someone who probably thinks differently from you and thus can easily have a different opinion for a huge variety of reasions

Obā-san

glennmagusharvey said:

no, it's more like

> implying that people don't normally have shady tactics to get good reviews anyway
> implying that this is in any way abnormal
> implying that game reviews are worth anything in the first place, period, when they're from someone who probably thinks differently from you and thus can easily have a different opinion for a huge variety of reasions

p much

Section42L

Kexruct said:

Like, I've seen evidence that she did cheat, but, like, whose fucking business is that???

Is that an unreasonable question to ask? Is an ex airing out his dirty laundry any better? Especially when the woman in question has a history of being harassed? Especially when there's no way he couldn't have known?

I'm at a loss. These are otherwise 100% reasonable people going along with this.

I'm just going to leave this here.

glennmagusharvey

also

maybe i missed the boat on this again?

because somehow i find myself not giving a shit

in the sense of why are people raising hell over her sleeping with some other people

glennmagusharvey

btw

what would be an appropriate venue for ridiculing the people raising this hell, where they could actually run into it?

would twitter work?  what hashtags should i use to make sure i'm bothering someone?

Sredni Vashtar

If they are normally reasonable and are going along with this, then they have serious underlying issues that they need to address as people. I mean, really, cheating is complicated and it's really between the people involved and unless there's something really fucked up about it, it's none of anyone else's business to get involved or make sweeping character judgements. Furthermore, sleeping around does not mean that you are the kind of person who will use sex for personal gain. It's fucking stupid and really sexist and gross.

glennmagusharvey

using sex for personal gain is like, the second most common hobby of the human species

glennmagusharvey

the first one is hurting humans (occasionally this includes themselves)

nohaynicklibre

nohaynicklibre

Also no one is nodding respectfully.

It's like you guys don't want good luck and prosperity

glennmagusharvey

btw is that a reddit screenshot?

okay that's another count against going there

Hexartes

I do not, do not, do not care if any of this is real. If it is, it is likely only a very small amount that is true, and that small amount is no one's business. Period. End of story.

And male figures in the industry don't face this. Females do though, constantly. Even if it is true, it doesn't matter; the only reason anyone cares is that the subject is female.

glennmagusharvey

*nods flippantly*

glennmagusharvey

Kexruct said:

I do not, do not, do not care if any of this is real. If it is, it is likely only a very small amount that is true, and that small amount is no one's business. Period. End of story.

And male figures in the industry don't face this. Females do though, constantly. Even if it is true, it doesn't matter; the only reason anyone cares is that the subject is female.

and this is why i say that the ideal way of dealing with this is being completely gender-blind

Section42L

Yeah, it is a Reddit screenshot. It's the ex's response to the claims being made against him.

If you want to read his full account for yourself, you can do it by clicking on this link.

I'm sorry for caring about this, but the ex doesn't seem like the type who'd ally with antifeminists, so I think it's unfair to imply that he is.

glennmagusharvey

oh hey, look

http://store.steampowered.com/app/270170/

there are a fuckton of really really shitty reviews for me to downvote

on both sides, positive and negative

*starts downvoting with a vengeance*

You're invited to help me with this, btw.

Obā-san

Section42L said:

Kexruct said:

Like, I've seen evidence that she did cheat, but, like, whose fucking business is that???

Is that an unreasonable question to ask? Is an ex airing out his dirty laundry any better? Especially when the woman in question has a history of being harassed? Especially when there's no way he couldn't have known?

I'm at a loss. These are otherwise 100% reasonable people going along with this.

I'm just going to leave this here.

why does it matter to anyone outside of her immediate acquaintance whether or not she's an asshole

like, people still listen to musicians after they do things that are considerably more obnoxious/pernicious.

Salix Babylonika

What her ex says doesn't matter.

People wanted an excuse to hate this woman more than they already did, and they now have one.

Whether or not it's true does not matter an iota to these people.

Salix Babylonika

FYI if you're concerned with supplying evidence that she's a bad person/did something wrong, you're part of the problem. The discussion does not go further than that.

Hexartes

Opening up someone who already received harassment to MORE harassment, even if you've been wronged, is the wrong thing to do. Period.

glennmagusharvey

BTW

what does Five Guys Burgers and Fries have to do with this game?
it's being brought up repeatedly in these reviews

nohaynicklibre

This controversy is old and busted anyway.

The new hotness is Ben Kuchera making an article about a pirate HD remaster of Star Wars after trying to get Erik Kain fired for making an article about emulating unreleased SNES games.

Yarrun XIX

The bad thing is that it looks like she did actually cheat on her boyfriend, or at least did screwed him over in some way or form. The problem is that the internet's calling it corruption and nepotism because one of the people she screwed was a writer for Kotaku, never mind that the writer never said a word about Depression Quest. 

Conflating personal character with artistic skill is poor logic. People are flawed, but that doesn't mean that they're unskilled at what they do. If it did, then JFK and Bubba Clinton wouldn't be remembered nearly as fondly as they are.

EDIT: Oh, wow, things happened while I Was researching

Obā-san

Mo The Show said:

...you're part of the problem. The discussion does not go further than that.

im sorry but that rhetorical device is so utterly fucking obnoxious and intellectually browbeating

Section42L

naney said:

Section42L said:

Kexruct said:

Like, I've seen evidence that she did cheat, but, like, whose fucking business is that???

Is that an unreasonable question to ask? Is an ex airing out his dirty laundry any better? Especially when the woman in question has a history of being harassed? Especially when there's no way he couldn't have known?

I'm at a loss. These are otherwise 100% reasonable people going along with this.

I'm just going to leave this here.

why does it matter to anyone outside of her immediate acquaintance whether or not she's an asshole

like, people still listen to musicians after they do things that are considerably more obnoxious/pernicious.

I wasn't saying that. I was saying that the ex-boyfriend doesn't seem like the type of person Kex is painting him as being.

Of course, this issue is going to make it harder for women in video games to get a toehold in, and that's pretty depressing.

Then again, I'm apparently part of the problem, so maybe I should just go accept my true nature and go live in a cave for the rest of my life.

Hexartes

It's just Your Fave Is Problematic-ism. I hate it. So much.

Hexartes

I apologized for the incorrect characterization, by the way. But this entire affair is bullshit.

Salix Babylonika

Even if she did, the boyfriend is still largely at fault for making this a public issue. Which it's not.

The entire internet now knows that Zoe Quinn, developer of Depression Quest, may have cheated on her boyfriend.

When is the last time Edmund McMillen had to deal with a public controversy like this? Notch? Redigit? Hell, Phil Fish was just a straight up asshole and people are more willing to defend him than a woman.

Section42L

Mo The Show said:

Even if she did, the boyfriend is still largely at fault for making this a public issue. Which it's not.

The entire internet now knows that Zoe Quinn, developer of Depression Quest, may have cheated on her boyfriend.

When is the last time Edmund McMillen had to deal with a public controversy like this? Notch? Redigit? Hell, Phil Fish was just a straight up asshole and people are more willing to defend him than a woman.

For the record, I'm also quite annoyed at Phil Fish's antics. I don't think that takes away from any talent he has, just like I don't think that takes away from any talent that Zoe Quinn has.

Salix Babylonika

naney said:

Mo The Show said:

...you're part of the problem. The discussion does not go further than that.

im sorry but that rhetorical device is so utterly fucking obnoxious and intellectually browbeating

Is it as obnoxious as putting a woman on display to be publicly abused?

Hexartes

The issue is that people are imagining these indie developers of being unfathomably influential and rich and powerful and that simply isn't the case. They're people whose flaws are accentuated by being in the public eye and not being prepared for it.

glennmagusharvey

I never went and bought FEZ.  In fact, I intentionally avoided buying it.

When it showed up in a Humble Bundle that I picked up, I made sure to give him no money.

Hexartes

Mo The Show said:

naney said:

Mo The Show said:

...you're part of the problem. The discussion does not go further than that.

im sorry but that rhetorical device is so utterly fucking obnoxious and intellectually browbeating

Is it as obnoxious as putting a woman on display to be publicly abused?

No, but Sec wasn't doing that except in the broadest possible sense.

Salix Babylonika

Section42L said:

Mo The Show said:

Even if she did, the boyfriend is still largely at fault for making this a public issue. Which it's not.

The entire internet now knows that Zoe Quinn, developer of Depression Quest, may have cheated on her boyfriend.

When is the last time Edmund McMillen had to deal with a public controversy like this? Notch? Redigit? Hell, Phil Fish was just a straight up asshole and people are more willing to defend him than a woman.

For the record, I'm also quite annoyed at Phil Fish's antics. I don't think that takes away from any talent he has, just like I don't think that takes away from any talent that Zoe Quinn has.

That's not the point, I liked Fez too and I've never played Depression Quest, the artistic work here is not the point at all.

The point is that the gaming community was so ready and willing to just accept this before anything was proven, because they wanted a reason to call one of the few prominent female indie devs a slut. Now they have one.

Is her ex the crazy stalker some sides of this story are portraying him as? Maybe, maybe not, that doesn't matter either. The problem is, again, that:

the gaming community was so ready and willing to just accept this before
anything was proven, because they wanted a reason to call one of the
few prominent female indie devs a slut.

glennmagusharvey

There we go, I just flamed some people on Twitter.

Sredni Vashtar

Mo, please don't treat Section like he's some kind of evil MRA-supporting straw-man because he made a point that you think isn't relevant. It's really just not called for whatsoever.

glennmagusharvey

So the reviews section for the game on Steam consists of...

1. some number of reviews that contain useful content

2. a bunch of "reviews" (mostly positive ones) that attempt to be funny asking who the review gets to fuck now that they've written a positive review, or otherwise reference the scandal (which, frankly speaking, is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to the quality of the game)

3. a bunch of "reviews" (mostly negative ones) that only say that it's not a game or doesn't belong on Steam, and nothing else

4. a bunch of reviews (some included in the previous two categories) that consist of references to Five Guys Burgers and Fries.  no idea why this is here but i presume there's a reference to that restaurant in the game.

I suggest heading over there and downvoting reviews of types 2, 3, and 4.  It's pretty easy -- such reviews are almost always exclusively very short.  Skim over their two lines of content, and you can see whether it should be downvoted for being contentless crap or not.

Salix Babylonika

Well I apologize for being overly brutish, but I think my most recent post explains my point of view perfectly.